Starting guides for various platforms

[Gunness]

Our platform count has now reached 41 and is bound to grow even further. For people plaing text adventures, the platform doesn't really matter a great deal. They just want to get started.
The challenge is how to get started, if you've just selected a platform which you're totally unfamiliar with. A number of machines have emulators with Autostart features, but others are less lucky. And when a friend of mine mentioned that running TRS-80 games wasn't really that big a chore, you just had to "load up BASIC from disk, then load the program and run it, or execute the binary command file using the TRSDOS interface", I knew I was in trouble

Naturally, most retro sites are aimed squarely at fans of a given platform - fans who need no crash course in loading and running games. Hence it can be tricky to locate the absolute basics that will help noobs get up and running.

Would it be useful with simple, 101 starting guides for the various platforms? And if so, can anyone help in writing them or send links?

[UPDATE]
The starting guides can be found by clicking the respective platforms. Here's a list of the guides:

• Amstrad CPC
• BBC
• C64
• Dragon
• Sharp MZ

[Samwise]

Controversial, but I'm not sure writing a guide for every platform is necessarily the best way to go. You may put people off by overloading them with information.

I wonder if targetting a small number of the most popular games/platforms and covering those in a Getting Started with IF guide might be a better idea than having a list of 101 starter guides covering all possible platforms. Then encourage people to ask specific questions in the forum when they have more confidence.

Of course, using Parchment is probably one of the simplest ways to get completely new ppl started.

Just a thought,

Sam.

[Mr Creosote]

"load up BASIC from disk, then load the program and run it, or execute the binary command file using the TRSDOS interface"

There you've got your first comprehensive guide already

On a more serious note, for modern-age games, it's mostly trivial as Sam says. A pointer to some one-for-all interpreter which handles all formats commonly in use these days (e.g. Gargoyle) will be enough. Once you get to 'classic' systems, however... you probably need more than one level of guide:
1. Explain the emulators in detail. I.e. basically pick one emulator for each 'current system' - 'classic system' combination and write in-depth documentation.
2. Explain how the emulated system works.

The second step will probably not be required for every system. In your own above example, it would be, though.

Of course, you'd have to keep those guides up-to-date with the development of the emulators.

So... I think this is pretty much impossible unless you hire a couple of knowledgable full time writers. I made a feeble attempt many years ago myself (some hopelessly outdated scraps can still be found at http://abware.net/) and gave up again quickly. I think the way to go is to recommend suitable emulators/interpreters for each system and maybe place generic links to them (or a page explaining what to use) on the respective game pages (easily done technically, just some conditional lines depending on the platforms the game is available for). Much like you're already doing, but maybe extend it a little.

[Gunness]

What I had in mind was not modern games, but old school stuff. The former is well catered for by Parchment (which might not be revolutionary but is certainly an excellent tool for newcomers).
And when I mentioned "noobs", I wasn't thinking about people unfamiliar with adventure games, but with a certain platform. For instance, I have now added a number of games for the Coleco Adam. Some of them sound fairly interesting, so I'd like to give them a spin. But as I have absolutely zero experience with that machine, I'd like a helping hand. Nothing long-winded, just a really brief list of useful commands (my use of "101" was supposed to indicate a really basic course, not the number of guides!)

The popular formats are well catered for with excellent emulators and Gamebases etc. so it would mostly be for the more obscure platforms.
An example for the C64:
"Getting you started:
- download the VICE emulator here. Unzip and start it.
- mount the desired disc image by pressing Alt+8
- to show the disc contents: LOAD "$",8
- to load a file: LOAD "filename",8,1 - then RUN
- to save a state press Alt+S
"

I don't see a lot of maintenance here, and IMO the instructions don't have to be much more complex than that. The list above is sufficient to get you started. Most of the time it's easy enough to find a suitable emulator, and most setup and save state commands are available via menus. But since the DIR and LOAD commands tend to vary a lot between platforms, I'd definitely appreciate a brief guide with the most basic commands explained.

As for having emulator links on the game pages, it's an interesting thought. I'm just afraid that it would clutter the pages. Once people have found a suitable emulator and know how it works, they won't need it on every game page any longer.

[Mr Creosote]

As I said - this will be OK as long as you provide such instructions for various host platforms. Otherwise, you'll just look close-minded.

[Gunness]

Again, I can write such guides for a number of the most common platforms. For the more esoteric ones, I don't have the knowledge. So I'll need some assistance in order not to come across as closed-minded.

... if there's any interest in the project, that is. I'd rather not spend a lot of time on information which nobody wants.

[Samwise]

Well, I still think there's a bit of inconsistency at play here about whether this site is supporting the emulation side or not, but you're the boss.

The problem is trying to make a guide simple enough to not be too scary, whilst still trying to cater for all of the possible images that might be downloaded from any of the myriad sites on the internet (as you're not hosting images here). Many platform emulators commonly cover up to three filing systems, cassette tape, disk and save state. Plus others have cartridges/ROMs and other variations. All of which may or may not need to be handled differently.

Here's my shot at the platform I know best - the beeb. It covers virtually anything you might find to download, except some of the really early stuff which was archived as individual files and is a pain even for those familiar with beeb emulation.

If it's considered too long, I've also provided an abridged version which is shorter and still covers the vast majority of BBC Micro images online but may not work with a small number of titles, such as ADFS titles or an Econet-enabled beeb.

Sam.

Code: Select all

BBC Micro game emulation - getting started

- download a BBC Micro emulator, either BeebEm [http://www.mkw.me.uk/beebem] or B-Em [http://b-em.bbcmicro.com/].  BeebEm has more features incl. save-state support.  B-Em is more technically accurate - the sound is much better.  Unzip the emulator (or run the installer, if you've downloaded the executable version of BeebEm with an installer), compile it if required (for a *nix operating system) and then run it.

- download a game. Unzip it, if necessary.  If you know the file is a .uef save-state then load it into BeebEm with the Load State option.  Otherwise, if the extension of the file is .uef or .csw it is most likely a cassette tape image.  If it is .ssd or .dsd, it is a DFS disc image and if it is .adf or similar it is an ADFS disc image.

- Most emulators are generally configured by default to work with cassette tape and DFS images, but are not usually configured with ADFS support.  If this is required, the simplest solution is to change the model of BBC micro emulated to be a Master 128 rather than an original Model B.  This supports all three filing systems incl. ADFS, but note that some older games are not compatible with the Master 128, tho such titles were almost certainly not supplied on an ADFS disc originally.

- load the cassette or disc image into the emulator using the appropriate option in the pull-down menus

-CASSETTE TAPE - to run the game, type:

*TAPE
PAGE=&E00
?&224=&A6
CHAIN"" (or if the game doesn't start "Loading", reset the machine, repeat the process but try *RUN instead)

- DFS DISC - to run the game, type:

?&224=&A6

Then hold down the SHIFT and D keys, whilst you tap the BBC's Break key (usually mapped to F12 on the PC).  Release the SHIFT and D keys.

- ADFS DISC - to run the game, type:

?&224=&A6

Then hold down the SHIFT and A keys, whilst you tap the BBC's Break key (usually mapped to F12 on the PC).  Release the SHIFT and A keys.  

Note: If a DFS or ADFS disc does not auto-boot, type ?&224=&A6 again, followed by *DISC (for DFS) or *ADFS (for ADFS) and then use *CAT to see a list of files in the root directory of the disc.  Starting with the most obvious looking filenames in the $ directory, try CHAIN"<filename>" or *RUN <filename> until you find the correct one that starts the game or menu.

Code: Select all

BBC Micro game emulation - getting started (abridged)

- download a BBC Micro emulator, either BeebEm [http://www.mkw.me.uk/beebem] or B-Em [http://b-em.bbcmicro.com/].  BeebEm has more features incl. save-state support.  B-Em is more technically accurate - the sound is much better.  Install the emulator and run it.

- download a game. Unzip it, if necessary.  If you know the file is a .uef save-state then load it into BeebEm with the Load State option.  Otherwise, if the extension of the file is .uef or .csw it is probably a cassette tape image otherwise if it is .ssd or .dsd, it is a DFS disc image.

- load the cassette or disc image into the emulator using the appropriate option in the pull-down menus

- in the case of tape, to run the game type:

*TAPE
PAGE=&E00
CHAIN"" (or if the game doesn't start "Loading", reset the machine, repeat the process but try *RUN instead)

- in the case of DFS disc, type:

Hold down the SHIFT and D keys, whilst you tap the BBC's Break key (usually mapped to F12 on the PC).  Release the SHIFT and D keys.

Note: If a DFS disc does not auto-boot type *DISC, then use *CAT to see a list of files in the root directory of the disc.  Starting with the most obvious looking filenames in the $ directory, try CHAIN"<filename>" or *RUN <filename> until you find the correct one that starts the game or menu.

[Mr Creosote]

Again, I can write such guides for a number of the most common platforms. For the more esoteric ones, I don't have the knowledge. So I'll need some assistance in order not to come across as closed-minded.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. What I was trying to get at (using my self-chosen terms which so clear only in my own mind, I guess) is that this has to be a two-dimensional effort. One dimension is target systems, i.e. the system the game you want to run is made for (e.g. BBC Micro, Spectrum or C64). The second dimension is host systems, i.e. the system the visitor is actually using for his or her daily work. So you get a matrix like this:

Code: Select all

						Host System 1	Host System 2	Host System 3
Target System 1
Target System 2
Target System 3
Target System 4
Target System 5
Target System 6

And you need to fill each of these combinations. In reality, some cells might overlap at times, but in many cases, they won't. Now, what I meant about being 'close-minded' was what happens on many sites: they fill only one of the columns. Even worse, without stating that they restrict themselves in that way. Every time I come across such a site, I know I can forget about it immediately.

[Gunness]

Well, I still think there's a bit of inconsistency at play here about whether this site is supporting the emulation side or not, but you're the boss.

You need to elaborate that a bit, I'm afraid Is it because we're not supporting all platforms equally or because I find that emulator links on all relevant game pages are overkill? No hard feelings, I'm just trying to understand you.

I think your guide is excellent. Simple as that. And to prove my point about why I think beginner's guides might be necessary:

- DFS DISC - to run the game, type:

?&224=&A6

Then hold down the SHIFT and D keys, whilst you tap the BBC's Break key (usually mapped to F12 on the PC). Release the SHIFT and D keys.

Scary stuff indeed!

[Gunness]

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing here. What I was trying to get at (using my self-chosen terms which so clear only in my own mind, I guess) is that this has to be a two-dimensional effort.

Ah, I get it. I had overlooked the word "host" in the "host platform" sentence you wrote earlier.

Such a table would be pretty overwhelming to construct, let alone maintain. And I'm pretty sure that it would not be worth the effort.
Here's the deal: I have written a brief emulator section which is really just a carry-over from the old site. Hence it doesn't cover more than a fraction of the available target platforms. As for the host platforms, I've just gone with the Windows emulators, in order to reach a wide audience. Yes, that leaves out *nix, Mac, mobile platforms etc. So be it. With this site covering so many target platforms, I don't see it as our job to cater for all the possible OS'es out there. We can link to sites that do a much better job of maintaining extensive emulator lists for their respective machines and spend our own energy better on our core "product".

The fact is that the challenge isn't so much finding an emulator for your OS and starting it. Google will get you very far in a short while. But understanding how a specific disc system works or how a certain variant of BASIC has implemented the LOAD command - that's a lot trickier to find because most users with an interest in these old machines know these things already. So my suggestion is to give a brief list of commands, a la Sam's Beeb guide, because it will work with all emulators, no matter what your OS is.

[Mr Creosote]

Here's the deal: I have written a brief emulator section which is really just a carry-over from the old site. Hence it doesn't cover more than a fraction of the available target platforms. As for the host platforms, I've just gone with the Windows emulators, in order to reach a wide audience.

Wide audience? I hope you're aware that, for example, what you're catering there is actually a miniscule minority in places like rec.arts.int-fiction...

The fact is that the challenge isn't so much finding an emulator for your OS and starting it.

That depends very much on the target platform. Also, the emulator's user interface is part of the guides as you suggested them, isn't it?

But understanding how a specific disc system works or how a certain variant of BASIC has implemented the LOAD command - that's a lot trickier to find because most users with an interest in these old machines know these things already. So my suggestion is to give a brief list of commands, a la Sam's Beeb guide, because it will work with all emulators, no matter what your OS is.

That's right, of course. These parts would always be host platform agnostic. Hence the split of the Amiga guides I linked to earlier into 'WinUAE', 'E-UAE' and 'AmigaOS'. The last part comes into play once you've got some emulator running, no matter which.

[Gunness]

"Wide audience" is relative, isn't it? - so of course here it refers to "wide within the community interested in retro adventure games". I don't know much about the crowd using r.a.i-f, but with every risk of being wrong I don't see much overlapping between them and our users. I'll make the foolhardy assumption that a healthy share of our visitors use different versions of Windows and go from there.

But if anyone wants to maintain a list of *nix, BeOS or Solaris emulators, they're certainly welcome to.

[Mr Creosote]

All I can say, then, is: Please clearly state your host platform assumptions. There is nothing more frustrating than being lead to assume a guide will be generic, but then, following the links, recognising it's useless.

I don't see much overlapping between them and our users

Well, there's me The more serious question is rather whether you want to maintain the status quo or improve on it.

[Gunness]

Also, the emulator's user interface is part of the guides as you suggested them, isn't it?

Oh, there's certainly nothing wrong with having some brief emulator instructions. Take that as icing on the cake. But the core information should be how to load software once the emulator is up and running.

The more serious question is rather whether you want to maintain the status quo or improve on it.

Erm.... how would I go about accomplishing that? I'm largely unfamiliar with r.a.i-f these days, as I stopped using it about ten years ago.

[Samwise]

The second dimension is host systems, i.e. the system the visitor is actually using for his or her daily work.

My guide had a line in reminding *nix users to compile the emulator.

Well, I still think there's a bit of inconsistency at play here about whether this site is supporting the emulation side or not, but you're the boss.

You need to elaborate that a bit, I'm afraid Is it because we're not supporting all platforms equally or because I find that emulator links on all relevant game pages are overkill? No hard feelings, I'm just trying to understand you.

Not so much stock emulator links, per se.

If you were going to have a policy of full support available on this forum for getting titles working, I'd probably expect to see each of the titles either hosted or directly linked from each CASA entry. So you go the CASA page for The Hobbit and you'd see links to cassette/disk images at WorldofSpectrum and Lemon64 etc. with a a link next to each with the primary emulator that the game has been tested with e.g. next to the Lemon64 link would be a link labelled vice. However, as you're providing the support locally, instead of that being an actual link to the vice homepage, I'd see that going to the vice entry on the emulators page of CASA. That entry would be as you're describing - a fairly detailed description of how to get each emulator running, and to load the game that is linked.

My problem with only doing the emulators page, which it sounds like what you're proposing, is that you run the risk that someone will download the game from a non-obvious source which may not be in the common format. For example, in the beeb world the website The BBC Lives! was one of the biggest sites back in the early-mid nineties. It is no longer maintained, but it remains online as a static archive as it has a lot of great content. A good number of the titles available were archived as individual files rather than as disc images (which started off as the norm for archiving), but which are no longer generally supported by modern emulators - so it's usually best to manually convert them into disc images which is a bit fiddly and long-winded. Trying to support that level here at CASA is pretty mad, which is why if you're going to do the full support thing I think it might be better to point to known working images, even if they're not locally hosted.

I am of course a newcomer here, though, so happy to follow where you lead.

I think your guide is excellent. Simple as that. And to prove my point about why I think beginner's guides might be necessary:

- DFS DISC - to run the game, type:

?&224=&A6

Then hold down the SHIFT and D keys, whilst you tap the BBC's Break key (usually mapped to F12 on the PC). Release the SHIFT and D keys.

Scary stuff indeed!

That's from the full version, which tries to cater for any BBC Micro system/software. The abridged version drops the poke line because that's only to ensure there are no problems if the beeb is networked, which is unlikely with the default emulator settings.

The SHIFT+D+BREAK could also be simplified to SHIFT+BREAK, if you assume that DFS is the currently selected filing system which it usually is, again with the default emulator settings.

Once you've got the knack, it's very simple to load a disc with SHIFT+BREAK but a lot of people find it quite awkward at first to keep hold of the SHIFT key until after you've let go of BREAK, esp. if they're watching someone more experienced do it quickly. Once they've got SHIFT+BREAK down, SHIFT+D+BREAK is a cinch and it ensures that even if the machine currently has another filing system selected, like ADFS, then it will switch to DFS before trying to boot the disc.

Sam.