12 Lost Souls
Moderator: Alastair
12 Lost Souls
Does anyone know this adventure and if so can they help? It is an Amstrad game written on the GAC that seems to be about trying to rescue 12 souls from purgatory. The locations vary from mystical fictional ones such as "the blood soaked land" to real world ones such as the Wrekin Mountain.
Recently, I figured I would try and complete as many text adventures featured on TACGR/CPCZone as possible that didn't have solutions on CASA. Alphabetically, 12 Lost Souls is the first of these but I have come unstuck at the first hurdle. The game has a horrendously complex and illogical map, and it is easy to wander from one location straight into instant death. Nevertheless I have persevered and I now have a working map and I have saved 2 of the 12 souls (the priest with the hymnbook, and the safe in the university).
Anyway, if anyone has completed this or has some tips I would be very grateful. Alternatively, if anyone fancies a retro challenge and wants to help me try and complete it then I will be happy to post what I have managed so far and I will try and make my map into a version that is downloadable. The game itself is downloadable from the Total Amstrad Computer Game Resource (TACGR).
Thanks in anticipation,
Razors
Recently, I figured I would try and complete as many text adventures featured on TACGR/CPCZone as possible that didn't have solutions on CASA. Alphabetically, 12 Lost Souls is the first of these but I have come unstuck at the first hurdle. The game has a horrendously complex and illogical map, and it is easy to wander from one location straight into instant death. Nevertheless I have persevered and I now have a working map and I have saved 2 of the 12 souls (the priest with the hymnbook, and the safe in the university).
Anyway, if anyone has completed this or has some tips I would be very grateful. Alternatively, if anyone fancies a retro challenge and wants to help me try and complete it then I will be happy to post what I have managed so far and I will try and make my map into a version that is downloadable. The game itself is downloadable from the Total Amstrad Computer Game Resource (TACGR).
Thanks in anticipation,
Razors
I'm currently working on a reader/dumper and interpreter for GAC games on modern systems, codenamed "grackle". C source code can be found at https://sourceforge.net/projects/grackle/. It's currently in pre-alpha, so no binaries on if-archive yet and I've only tried it on Linux, not on Windows.
At the moment I've been concentrating on Spectrum GAC games; but there shouldn't be any real reason why we can't mod it to read CPC games (as GAC was written on the CPC and the CPC and Spectrum shared a common processor).
If there's a Spectrum version I can dump the database and answer any questions. If not, you can persuede me to accelerate the CPC reader and then I can dump the database and answer any questions...
At the moment I've been concentrating on Spectrum GAC games; but there shouldn't be any real reason why we can't mod it to read CPC games (as GAC was written on the CPC and the CPC and Spectrum shared a common processor).
If there's a Spectrum version I can dump the database and answer any questions. If not, you can persuede me to accelerate the CPC reader and then I can dump the database and answer any questions...
Many, many thanks. My limited (read non-existant) programming capabilities mean than I don't fully understand exactly what Grackle is, however I do understand the effort that has gone in, and I am extremely impressed that you can modify the program to function on the CPC GAC in LESS THAN 24 HOURS!!
I am extremely grateful for your offer for some tips. I assume that the database dump provides information about what the author entered into GAC to provide the puzzles (e.g. if user enters GIVE HYMN TO PRIEST then reply HE SINGS FOR JOY and provide MYSTIC SPIRIT etc.) As I am so early in the game I don't know what puzzles come first and what come later. However, if you could help me with what the brass key does (I cannot get it to open either Ye Olde Inn or the University, both of which are locked) and how to get into those places then that would be a start. Also, is it possible to ask what verbs the parser understands? It seems to be limited to simple VERB then NOUN entries. Are there puzzles that require longer sentances (e.g. talk to X about Y)?
Thank you ever so much for your help and for you generosity in modifying Grackle just for my benefit. If I ever solve this game and provide a solution for CASA the I will email you to put your name on the solution also.
Best wishes,
Razors
I am extremely grateful for your offer for some tips. I assume that the database dump provides information about what the author entered into GAC to provide the puzzles (e.g. if user enters GIVE HYMN TO PRIEST then reply HE SINGS FOR JOY and provide MYSTIC SPIRIT etc.) As I am so early in the game I don't know what puzzles come first and what come later. However, if you could help me with what the brass key does (I cannot get it to open either Ye Olde Inn or the University, both of which are locked) and how to get into those places then that would be a start. Also, is it possible to ask what verbs the parser understands? It seems to be limited to simple VERB then NOUN entries. Are there puzzles that require longer sentances (e.g. talk to X about Y)?
Thank you ever so much for your help and for you generosity in modifying Grackle just for my benefit. If I ever solve this game and provide a solution for CASA the I will email you to put your name on the solution also.
Best wishes,
Razors
I wouldn't worry too much about me adding CPC support; I'd been downloading CPC files in advance and just needed a reason to get my finger out and do some work on it... Actually your solution will help me for testing - it's so much quicker to test with a solution than to also complete it myself.
You're right that the database is a dump of all information in the game. It is what's used by the Graphic Adventure Creator to run the game, so contains all information.
It looks to me as if the brass key doesn't actually do anything - I can find any actions using it.
To get into the University seems to be a "Guess the verb": if you are standing in Room 5 (Your outside a University. All is quiet.) and use either MOVE IN or ENTER you will be taken to the University. ENTER with or without a noun seems to be a common technique used to gain access to places.
It doesn't seem as if you can enter the Inn. The only room condition I can find for it is:
The verb list is below; note that is a verb has the same number (e.g. EAT and CONSUME) it means that either verb can be used for the action:
Verb 21: ASK
Verb 41: ATTACK
Verb 31: BLOW
Verb 32: BREAK
Verb 34: CAST
Verb 44: CLAIM
Verb 58: CLIMB
Verb 28: CONSUME
Verb 6: D
Verb 36: DIG
Verb 55: DIVE
Verb 6: DOWN
Verb 29: DRINK
Verb 8: DROP
Verb 3: E
Verb 3: EAST
Verb 28: EAT
Verb 37: ENTER
Verb 16: EXAMINE
Verb 41: FIGHT
Verb 105: FIND
Verb 7: GET
Verb 23: GIVE
Verb 61: HELP
Verb 26: HOLD
Verb 37: IN
Verb 24: INSERT
Verb 10: INVENTORY
Verb 48: JUMP
Verb 41: KILL
Verb 9: L
Verb 38: LEAVE
Verb 60: LIGHT
Verb 10: LIST
Verb 15: LOAD
Verb 9: LOOK
Verb 34: MAKE
Verb 19: MOVE
Verb 1: N
Verb 1: NE
Verb 1: NORTH
Verb 4: NW
Verb 23: OFFER
Verb 17: OPEN
Verb 38: OUT
Verb 45: PAY
Verb 13: PICTURES
Verb 24: PUT
Verb 11: QUIT
Verb 20: READ
Verb 25: RIP
Verb 42: ROW
Verb 2: S
Verb 14: SAVE
Verb 21: SAY
Verb 59: SCORE
Verb 3: SE
Verb 50: SING
Verb 32: SMASH
Verb 2: SOUTH
Verb 21: SPEAK
Verb 41: STAB
Verb 60: STRIKE
Verb 16: STUDY
Verb 2: SW
Verb 55: SWIM
Verb 7: TAKE
Verb 21: TALK
Verb 25: TEAR
Verb 56: TEN
Verb 12: TEXT
Verb 18: THROW
Verb 5: U
Verb 80: UNDRESS
Verb 17: UNLOCK
Verb 5: UP
Verb 4: W
Verb 39: WAIT
Verb 46: WAKE
Verb 19: WALK
Verb 4: WEST
Verb 100: WHERE
Verb 103: WHO
Verb 12: WORDS
Verb 101: YES
You're right that the database is a dump of all information in the game. It is what's used by the Graphic Adventure Creator to run the game, so contains all information.
It looks to me as if the brass key doesn't actually do anything - I can find any actions using it.
To get into the University seems to be a "Guess the verb": if you are standing in Room 5 (Your outside a University. All is quiet.) and use either MOVE IN or ENTER you will be taken to the University. ENTER with or without a noun seems to be a common technique used to gain access to places.
It doesn't seem as if you can enter the Inn. The only room condition I can find for it is:
Which essentially says If you use the verb ENTER then say "It's locked".IF (VERB (VERB 37:"ENTER")) MESS (MESSAGE 46:"It's locked.") WAIT END
The verb list is below; note that is a verb has the same number (e.g. EAT and CONSUME) it means that either verb can be used for the action:
Verb 21: ASK
Verb 41: ATTACK
Verb 31: BLOW
Verb 32: BREAK
Verb 34: CAST
Verb 44: CLAIM
Verb 58: CLIMB
Verb 28: CONSUME
Verb 6: D
Verb 36: DIG
Verb 55: DIVE
Verb 6: DOWN
Verb 29: DRINK
Verb 8: DROP
Verb 3: E
Verb 3: EAST
Verb 28: EAT
Verb 37: ENTER
Verb 16: EXAMINE
Verb 41: FIGHT
Verb 105: FIND
Verb 7: GET
Verb 23: GIVE
Verb 61: HELP
Verb 26: HOLD
Verb 37: IN
Verb 24: INSERT
Verb 10: INVENTORY
Verb 48: JUMP
Verb 41: KILL
Verb 9: L
Verb 38: LEAVE
Verb 60: LIGHT
Verb 10: LIST
Verb 15: LOAD
Verb 9: LOOK
Verb 34: MAKE
Verb 19: MOVE
Verb 1: N
Verb 1: NE
Verb 1: NORTH
Verb 4: NW
Verb 23: OFFER
Verb 17: OPEN
Verb 38: OUT
Verb 45: PAY
Verb 13: PICTURES
Verb 24: PUT
Verb 11: QUIT
Verb 20: READ
Verb 25: RIP
Verb 42: ROW
Verb 2: S
Verb 14: SAVE
Verb 21: SAY
Verb 59: SCORE
Verb 3: SE
Verb 50: SING
Verb 32: SMASH
Verb 2: SOUTH
Verb 21: SPEAK
Verb 41: STAB
Verb 60: STRIKE
Verb 16: STUDY
Verb 2: SW
Verb 55: SWIM
Verb 7: TAKE
Verb 21: TALK
Verb 25: TEAR
Verb 56: TEN
Verb 12: TEXT
Verb 18: THROW
Verb 5: U
Verb 80: UNDRESS
Verb 17: UNLOCK
Verb 5: UP
Verb 4: W
Verb 39: WAIT
Verb 46: WAKE
Verb 19: WALK
Verb 4: WEST
Verb 100: WHERE
Verb 103: WHO
Verb 12: WORDS
Verb 101: YES
It looks like the coding isn't brilliant (just like the spelling); so I've checked the other way that things can be done and still can't find any reference to the key. The padlock also appears to just be present and doesn't serve a purpose. Maybe these are part of a puzzle that was never finished.
You can give the caretaker/curate the hymnbook and the mystic spirit appears in the curate's room.
There's another caretaker at the university who you can give the bread too and he'll open a secret passage to the alcove.
Note, to make the map even more illogical there's a NW exit to every room that seems to move you around all over the place...
You can give the caretaker/curate the hymnbook and the mystic spirit appears in the curate's room.
There's another caretaker at the university who you can give the bread too and he'll open a secret passage to the alcove.
Note, to make the map even more illogical there's a NW exit to every room that seems to move you around all over the place...
So, it looks like there are several options about to whom to give an object (e.g. hymnbook to curate or to priest).
"The padlock also appears to just be present and doesn't serve a purpose. Maybe these are part of a puzzle that was never finished."
More likely they are red herrings. BTW, maybe you folks know, but I found out today (for the second time actually, but I had forgotten the first time) - the phrase "red herring" came from the fact that some people brushed a red herring across a path in order to put (dogs?) off the scent?
"Note, to make the map even more illogical there's a NW exit to every room that seems to move you around all over the place..."
"To" or "from"? From my mapping, it appears that other directions take you to various places you have already visited. This may have been done in order to make it easier to retrieve objects you have seen.
Anyway, I am still mapping - there has to be an end sometime. Then I will play, in a way that I hope will minimize steps. Force of habit from playing too many time-limited games.
Any idea, how many objects there are? And how many you can carry?
"The padlock also appears to just be present and doesn't serve a purpose. Maybe these are part of a puzzle that was never finished."
More likely they are red herrings. BTW, maybe you folks know, but I found out today (for the second time actually, but I had forgotten the first time) - the phrase "red herring" came from the fact that some people brushed a red herring across a path in order to put (dogs?) off the scent?
"Note, to make the map even more illogical there's a NW exit to every room that seems to move you around all over the place..."
"To" or "from"? From my mapping, it appears that other directions take you to various places you have already visited. This may have been done in order to make it easier to retrieve objects you have seen.
Anyway, I am still mapping - there has to be an end sometime. Then I will play, in a way that I hope will minimize steps. Force of habit from playing too many time-limited games.
Any idea, how many objects there are? And how many you can carry?
Sorry Guys, it appears I may be adding to the confusion. You can only give the hymnbook to the Curate. There is no priest. I had been refering to the curate as a priest because I didn't have the game in front of me when I was writing my original posts. I think it is a reasonably simple game in terms of what objects do, so I think there is only one use for each object.
Secondly, if you look at the verb list you can see that the directions NW,NE,SW,SE are actually the same as single directions NW=W, NE=E, SW=W and SE=E. I have confirmed this from my map. I never use the combination directions NW etc.
Thirdly, I have a complete map which is hand drawn. Terri I can save you the time of mapping it I just need to know the best way of getting it to you. I will try and make a neater version however I am happy to scan my one in and send it to you if you wish.
Secondly, if you look at the verb list you can see that the directions NW,NE,SW,SE are actually the same as single directions NW=W, NE=E, SW=W and SE=E. I have confirmed this from my map. I never use the combination directions NW etc.
Thirdly, I have a complete map which is hand drawn. Terri I can save you the time of mapping it I just need to know the best way of getting it to you. I will try and make a neater version however I am happy to scan my one in and send it to you if you wish.
Ah; razors is correct about the NW exit - as in GAC you can define *any* verb to be an exit, my dumper only lists the first synonym (which, for W is NW). Strange way of doing the exits!
I didn't know that about red herrings (interestingly it actually means a kipper; red being an arachic term for salted or smoked).
I discovered a bug in my CPC parsing, due to rubbish at the end of some conditions that may require some work to fix; so I can give help on conditions, but there may be some errors. Things like words, objects, messages, rooms etc should be okay though.
In terms of objects, there are 53 defined in the code. These are not all pick upable as interactive characters (e.g. the farmer or the curate) are defined as objects, I'm happy to post the list if required.
In terms of printing, if you're using Windows, you can generally do File->Page Setup and then select Fit to 1 x 1 pages. This option is on most applications.
I did have a go at doing one on GUEmap, but I got really annoyed with the inconcistency of the exits
I didn't know that about red herrings (interestingly it actually means a kipper; red being an arachic term for salted or smoked).
I discovered a bug in my CPC parsing, due to rubbish at the end of some conditions that may require some work to fix; so I can give help on conditions, but there may be some errors. Things like words, objects, messages, rooms etc should be okay though.
In terms of objects, there are 53 defined in the code. These are not all pick upable as interactive characters (e.g. the farmer or the curate) are defined as objects, I'm happy to post the list if required.
In terms of printing, if you're using Windows, you can generally do File->Page Setup and then select Fit to 1 x 1 pages. This option is on most applications.
I did have a go at doing one on GUEmap, but I got really annoyed with the inconcistency of the exits
Re. Printing images, there's a nice free image manipulator/viewer for Windows that allows you to print pictures at any size of your choosing. It goes by the name of IrfanView and is available at
http://irfanview.com/
http://irfanview.com/
Thanks for the tips, gentleme.
I grew up in the pre-digital age, so I can only do so much. New research says that if you practise this stuff, you will get better. Problem is you have to practise consistently and a lot. The other thing is the older one gets, the easier it is to forget, or at least access the memory. Hence my difficulty with any emulator (except for the Spectrum) that I haven't "practised".
I think Razors is making his maps in .doc which I can open. It's if he switches to a different format, I may have problems. (Though I don't like WORD). (Some people get very fussy when they get older...)
I grew up in the pre-digital age, so I can only do so much. New research says that if you practise this stuff, you will get better. Problem is you have to practise consistently and a lot. The other thing is the older one gets, the easier it is to forget, or at least access the memory. Hence my difficulty with any emulator (except for the Spectrum) that I haven't "practised".
I think Razors is making his maps in .doc which I can open. It's if he switches to a different format, I may have problems. (Though I don't like WORD). (Some people get very fussy when they get older...)