12 Lost Souls

Games for Spectrum, C64, Amstrad, Amiga, Apple ][ and the rest of the 8-bit and 16-bit platforms. Pleas for help, puzzles, bug reports etc.

Moderator: Alastair

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dave
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:20 pm

#46 Post by dave » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:31 am

terri wrote:When you BLOW HORN as Dave suggested, nothing reallly happens, but when you enter where the Fralgs are and try to take the sword, it gives you the message that "a spell has been cast" but you die. So it seems to me you need to do/give something to the giant.
Whenever you take the sword it will kill you; so leave the sword alone! The Horn calms down the fralgs so that you can do things with the giant!
terri wrote:There has still got to be a better thing to do in the lagoon with whatever there is in the water with you. It seems a shame to use up a spirit to get out.
In the lagoon there's a dragon that you can drive off with a farming implement that's a bit sharp. There's also a waterbed that you may want to take a closer look at.

Once you've dealt with the dragon, you can GET OUT LAGOON (no OF) or you can go E.
terri wrote:Also, Dave, I have not been able to deal with the moaning farmer. Regardless of what I type, all I get is "he's moaning". You gave a hint that it was something ornamental. I tried giving/dropping the hanky, the brass object (all the ornamental things I have), but nothing.
You've got the right object; but the verbage seems funny here, it seems to be:
GIVE NONE OBJECT FARMER

The NONE is because the code references an adverb that doesn't seem to exist; this could be a bug in my decoding routine, so you may have to try random words here.

This isn't essential to do, when you give him the object you get the response: "The farmer thanks you for your gift and advises you to dig." and it stops him moaning, but nothing else.

dave
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:20 pm

#47 Post by dave » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:37 am

terri wrote:[Greemon]Yes I tried that, but somehow it didn't work. He ran off, but I still couldn't get out.
You need to: DROP GORSE and ATTACK COCHINEAL in that order, then you can go E. If you ASK GREEMON, he'll tell you why.
terri wrote:Yes, you did. I meant getting off the island.
Ah; I didn't realise that. There's a boat around.

dave
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:20 pm

#48 Post by dave » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:39 am

Alastair wrote:Has anyone found any reason for giving the spade to the giant on the sand dune? Are we meant do something with the mound that he uncovers?
This opens exits to the E and W

Alastair
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#49 Post by Alastair » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:50 pm

dave wrote:
Alastair wrote:Has anyone found any reason for giving the spade to the giant on the sand dune? Are we meant do something with the mound that he uncovers?
This opens exits to the E and W
Thanks, but you can already reach these locations without needing to climb the sand dune to the Red Desert, so does something else happen when you climb the dune (similar to the apple appearing after you give the hammer to the giants)?
dave wrote:This isn't essential to do, when you give him the object you get the response: "The farmer thanks you for your gift and advises you to dig." and it stops him moaning, but nothing else.
It may be essential, as after giving the initial location description the game so far responds with "He's moaning" and nothing else to every player input (with the exception to the directions E, S, and W, but they lead to sudden death).


For everyone else.
Re. the apple, after attempting to eat it, I should have stated that you need to examine it again before looking.

terri
Posts: 1250
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Location: Canada

#50 Post by terri » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:38 am

With the moaning farmer, I have tried every object I have (with the exception of the frayed rope which I did not get), and get nowhere - he is still moaning. It doesn't seem to matter whether you get the giant to dig a mound first or not.

In the lagoon, one should know there is a waterbed to examine???? This game is not only illogical, but bizarre.

I haven't found a boat yet. Does this get you just off the island or onto another location where something else can be found?

I am now up to 7 (I think) spirits, which I am reluctant to use just to get out of a location. Not to mention picking up objects that you may, or may not, need again.

Dave, Alastair is systematic to say the least. If he is unable to figure this out, and you can't find the correct adverb (are you sure it is an adverb- logic says in should be an adjective if it comes before "object" - maybe the two words are a synonym for one word), there may be bugs which we cannot decipher.

And now that I have a user-friendly emulator, I may have to work my way down Razor's list. I've probably played all the Spectrum games available, crackable or not. I am not as frustrated as I have been with some games, but I am stymied. Though I kinda like the premise.

dave
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:20 pm

#51 Post by dave » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:51 pm

Alastair wrote:Thanks, but you can already reach these locations without needing to climb the sand dune to the Red Desert, so does something else happen when you climb the dune (similar to the apple appearing after you give the hammer to the giants)?
From the code, when you're in room 101 ("You are in the Red Desert, beware, something is here also."). You use the verb WHO to get the giant to appear, then GIVE SHOVEL GIANT to get him to dig the dune.

Then you can go:
E to "A single dune is here on this vast and lonely desert."
W to "You are near HELL itself, choose wisely adventurer."
Alastair wrote:It may be essential, as after giving the initial location description the game so far responds with "He's moaning" and nothing else to every player input (with the exception to the directions E, S, and W, but they lead to sudden death).
You're right, the code states:

Code: Select all

IF (NOT (SET? (32))) MESS (MESSAGE 38:"He's moaning.") WAIT  END
Where flag 32 is the flag to say that you've given him the object and WAIT means immediately go to player input.

About the mysterious giving, the code is:

Code: Select all

IF ((((((NO2  = 38)  AND VERB (VERB 23:"GIVE"))  AND ADVE (ADVERB 1:"NONE"))  AND NOUN (NOUN 47:"OBJECT"))  AND RES? (32)) ) SET (32) MESS (MESSAGE 85:"The farmer thanks you for your gift and advises you to dig.") WAIT  END
The works out as GIVE <non> OBJECT FARMER.

It may be that there's a bug in my decoding routine (I'll have to check by going into the hex dump) or that you can just do GIVE OBJECT FARMER. Another idea that occured to me whilst walking the dog is that the adverb could be implied and may be THE, so try:
GIVE OBJECT FARMER
GIVE THE OBJECT FARMER

dave
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:20 pm

#52 Post by dave » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:01 pm

terri wrote:With the moaning farmer, I have tried every object I have (with the exception of the frayed rope which I did not get), and get nowhere - he is still moaning. It doesn't seem to matter whether you get the giant to dig a mound first or not.
The object is rather more specific than that it's:

Code: Select all

Object 47: a brass object Weight: 50 Starts in: 19: You stand before Blood Rock, named by it's deep crimson hue.
terri wrote:In the lagoon, one should know there is a waterbed to examine???? This game is not only illogical, but bizarre.
Weird I know, I can only imagine it's a pun on the bed of a river or sea...
terri wrote:I haven't found a boat yet. Does this get you just off the island or onto another location where something else can be found?
The boat seems to not exist as an object or description, you can only refer to it in "You are on riverbank. The water laps against the bank.". You also need something to power the boat, and there's a "find the verb" puzzle about how to use it (be exact). If you're still confused I can be more explicit.
terri wrote:Dave, Alastair is systematic to say the least. If he is unable to figure this out, and you can't find the correct adverb (are you sure it is an adverb- logic says in should be an adjective if it comes before "object" - maybe the two words are a synonym for one word), there may be bugs which we cannot decipher.
"Adverb" is a GAC term which covers adverbs and adjectives - basically any word in a sentence that isn't a verb or a noun. The way GAC constructs sentences is:
<verb> [adverb] [noun1] [noun2]
or <verb> [noun1] [adverb] [noun2]

Where <> signifies a required part and [] signifies an optional part. So an adverb may be the TO in GIVE SOLUTION TO TERRI, or it may be RED in GET RED HERRING.
terri wrote:And now that I have a user-friendly emulator, I may have to work my way down Razor's list. I've probably played all the Spectrum games available, crackable or not. I am not as frustrated as I have been with some games, but I am stymied. Though I kinda like the premise.
I'll be honest if I were playing this I'd have given up a long time ago; I really hate illogical rooms and puzzles :-)

I won't be able to help with all adventures, it's coincidence that I was working on a GAC reader at the time. I don't really know too much about the CPC (I'm more of a BBC person).

terri
Posts: 1250
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Location: Canada

#53 Post by terri » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:16 am

Yes. Dave, please be more explicit. I have tried get into the boat, even though I can't see it. Plus what object does one need to power the boat.

Still cannot do anything with the moaning man.

dave
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:20 pm

#54 Post by dave » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:57 pm

terri wrote:Yes. Dave, please be more explicit. I have tried get into the boat, even though I can't see it. Plus what object does one need to power the boat.
It is actually an object that exists:
Object 42: a rowing boat Weight: 200 Starts in: 50: You are on a riverbank. Across the waters is an island.

Looks like my previous search had been with case sensitivity on!

That room is S of "This is a Ferris Wheel site. The big wheel spins slowly."; which is S of "This dull place is a carpark. A clanking can be heard from the south."

To use the boat, you must GET IN BOAT; then ROW THE ISLAND. From the Island, you must GET IN BOAT and ROW BACK ACROSS. Once you've got there you should GET OUT BOAT.

You'll need the oar, which you can find by doing LOOK AROUND when in room 50, i.e. where the boat is.

I've tried to do deal with the moaning man myself by quickly running through the game and I can't get him to do owt. It looks like there may be a bug in the code; as you can't do anything as he's moaning, that means that you can never stop him moaning.

terri
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:08 am
Location: Canada

#55 Post by terri » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:13 pm

It is actually an object that exists:
Object 42: a rowing boat Weight: 200 Starts in: 50: You are on a riverbank. Across the waters is an island.
I may not be in the same room as you are. My description says "You are on a riverbank. The water laps against the bank. You can also see a chocineal." If I look around, I see nothing. If I GET IN BOAT, I get nothing. If I go S, I am inland, on an island. Then if I go N, then I can get in the boat, but looking around gets me nothing. I cannot find the oar. Never do I get a message across the waters is an island."

Obviously then I cannot get to the ferris wheel site, nor the carpark.

Alastair
Posts: 1046
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:21 am

#56 Post by Alastair » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:13 pm

Dave,
I have discovered an alternative disc image of 12 Lost Souls that you can download (Telecharger) from here
http://www.planetemu.net/index.php?sect ... m&id=26541
(warning - the site seems to be plagued with pop-up and pop-under windows). There are other images of the game available at that site but they can be ignored as they are identical to the one you can download from TACGR.

The question I have is whether Grackle shows any difference between the game linked to above and the one available from TACGR.

dave
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:20 pm

#57 Post by dave » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:32 am

Alastair wrote:I have discovered an alternative disc image of 12 Lost Souls that you can download (Telecharger) from here
http://www.planetemu.net/index.php?sect ... m&id=26541
(warning - the site seems to be plagued with pop-up and pop-under windows).
The game database seems to be the same; and a quick look at the contents of the file shows that the only difference is the filename. (12lost.bin as opposed to 12lost).

Good idea though...

dave
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:20 pm

#58 Post by dave » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:45 am

terri wrote:I may not be in the same room as you are. My description says "You are on a riverbank. The water laps against the bank. You can also see a chocineal." If I look around, I see nothing. If I GET IN BOAT, I get nothing. If I go S, I am inland, on an island. Then if I go N, then I can get in the boat, but looking around gets me nothing. I cannot find the oar. Never do I get a message across the waters is an island."
Ah; that's a different room (room 53 internally). You can row to room 50 (where the boat is) from room 53 (and vice versa).

I can't see how you get to the car park or the ferris wheel, and the only objects there are the boat and the iron rod. So this may be part of a puzzle that was never completed.

Note, from "The beautiful still waters of the lagoon are inviting." you can DIVE LAGOON to take you to "You are swimming in deep waters, something else swims too.".

Alastair
Posts: 1046
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:21 am

#59 Post by Alastair » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:16 am

dave wrote: The game database seems to be the same; and a quick look at the contents of the file shows that the only difference is the filename. (12lost.bin as opposed to 12lost).

Good idea though...
Thanks, it will save me the time of working through this alternative version.

Alastair
Posts: 1046
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:21 am

#60 Post by Alastair » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:23 am

Terri,
perhaps we should leave the moaning farmer and the island for later. Have you managed to do anything with the Haunted Hill or the Portal?

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