Space Derelict! (type-in)

Games for Spectrum, C64, Amstrad, Amiga, Apple ][ and the rest of the 8-bit and 16-bit platforms. Pleas for help, puzzles, bug reports etc.

Moderator: Alastair

Message
Author
User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Space Derelict! (type-in)

#1 Post by Strident » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:28 am

While doing a little bit of research into Jim Menick I found an unlisted game (Matinee Madness) but also a type-in from him that formed part of his "Basic Adventure and Strategy Game Design" book.

The book was published for the Apple II and TRS-80, but there doesn't yet seem to be a version of the game that has been typed-in. At least I can't spot one. (Although, as with any type-in, I wouldn't rule out there being uncredited ports out there!)

The TRS-80 version of the book is here, for those that like that sort of thing...
https://archive.org/details/Basic_Adven ... lications/

I've popped up a placeholder entry for the game...
http://solutionarchive.com/game/id%2C93 ... ct%21.html

Edit: There are references to an IBM PCJr version of the book too. Think that one came out in 1985.

User avatar
Garry
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#2 Post by Garry » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:38 am

I'm pretty sure that I've typed that one in, but it was a long time ago and I haven't played it yet to check that there's no typos. Ah, yes. I see that I've got a disk image and screen grabs for the TRS-80. I seem to recall that it was for the Model 4. Give me a week or so and I'll get onto it.

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#3 Post by Strident » Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:56 am

Certainly no rush! I just thought I'd flag it up as it was strange that I couldn't spot it online.

(I'm trying to avoid getting too deep into the Apple II stuff... I'm sure that there are so many games that we don't have listed! It really needs someone familiar with that scene to work through everything. Although I'm tempted just to add stuff as, and when, Jason gets to them in his All the Adventures series. :) )

User avatar
Garry
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#4 Post by Garry » Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:45 pm

I haven't seen the Apple II or PC books, but if someone can find a pdf of those, I can probably modify the TRS-80 listing appropriately.

User avatar
jgerrie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Nova Scotia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#5 Post by jgerrie » Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:16 am

Hey folks. I've started the process of trying to convert the listing to functioning code for Micro Color BASIC. Here is a directory in case folks are interested, and or want access to the code:

https://github.com/jggames/trs80mc10/tr ... s/Derelict

User avatar
jgerrie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Nova Scotia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#6 Post by jgerrie » Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:59 pm

I've finished cleaning up the code to represent its original form as printed in the book. Now I'm going to move on to modifying it to actually run on TRS-80 MC-10 Micro Color BASIC. But I will leave the unmodified form for those interested in its TRS-80 Model 4 form (DERELICT1.TXT). See the link in my post above.

Jim

User avatar
Garry
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#7 Post by Garry » Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:04 am

I've just uploaded a couple of screen grabs that I had done in the past. It's taken me about two hours to work out how to run the game. Does anyone have a reference for a quick start to the Model 4? I want to know the bare minimum needed to create a self booting disk that will auto run a BASIC game, i.e. what disk format to use, what DOS to use, what system files to include and how to auto run a BASIC program.

When I dug out my old notes, I see that I've noted two bugs. In line 13130, "13180" should be "13160". In line 6570, "5760" should be "6760". Jim might like to check these. If I find any others (of if Jim finds any others), I'll post them here so that I can submit a bug-fixed game on CASA.

User avatar
jgerrie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Nova Scotia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#8 Post by jgerrie » Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:19 am

Garry,
Never worked with a Model 4 emulator. I have a auto starting boot disk for a model 3 emulator I use. Not sure if there is a big difference, but there does seem to be some fancy disk stuff going on (CHAIN, etc.) that might make Model 3 BASIC incompatible with Model 4 BASIC. And the screen width 64-->80? But let me know if you think it might be helpful.

I also found the 6570 bug, but not the other one. Thanks. Will let you know if I spot any others.

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#9 Post by Strident » Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:51 am

Thanks for the screenshots, Garry.

Just when I think I've got my head around all the various TRS-80 computers, yet another one comes along that I didn't know about. :) I hadn't realised that the listing was specifically for the TRS-80 Model 4 and there would be issues with it on some of the other machines seemingly in that range.

(That luggable Model 4 does look quite cool, in a totally impractical carrying around a bundle of bricks way :) )

User avatar
jgerrie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Nova Scotia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#10 Post by jgerrie » Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:34 am

Got it working on MC-10. Nicely condensed and simplified code. What a beast. Guess working with a Model 4 meant not having to be careful with memory.
Might be an error at 5950. Should print the A$(19) message instead. Might have a few more, but the code is so modified it might be hard to recall. Oh well. I'll have an online playable version up tomorrow,

Jim

User avatar
Garry
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#11 Post by Garry » Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:40 pm

Hey Jim, have you been able to solve this horrible game? I've been tearing my hair out. As best as I can make out, you need to go to room 5 to get the pentagonal box. In order to get to room 5, you need to be carrying the ruined alien robot, but the ruined alien robot is in room 5. If you attempt to enter room 5 without the ruined alien robot, you get killed. It's a catch 22 situation.

User avatar
jgerrie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Nova Scotia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#12 Post by jgerrie » Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:44 pm

Garry,
I was tearing my hair out on that one too, but then I realized there is a walkthrough provided by Menick on pages 21-22. To get into room 5 you have to THINK OPEN or SAY OPEN in room 11 (the one where you can see into 5). You have to be carrying the pentagon and the crystal from room 7 for this to work. Menick admits that this "mind trick" is a bit of a shaft in his walkthrough, although there are some clues, such as when you carry the crystal into the hologram you get a subbliminal message saying "THINK HUMAN" or some such. There might be an error with the messaging in room eleven. You should be able to LOOK OBJECT and see that the metal thing in room 5 is a fried robot. That's supposed to be your warning to stay back, but it didn't work on my version. But I can't be sure if that was a result of my conversion hacking or not. Try LOOK OBJECT from room 11.

Here's a bit of a walkthrough from later on, just before the final rooms. I get toasted and don't complete, but I got there eventually with the walkthrough's help.
https://youtu.be/EUo78spxCcA

User avatar
Garry
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#13 Post by Garry » Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:41 am

Thanks. I didn't realise there was a walkthrough. The THINK OPEN (or SAY OPEN) was a stupid "puzzle". I had all the clues and still couldn't work out how to use it or phrase it, so had to look at the listing. I'm sure I tried it in room 11 (despite there being no door), but maybe not. You should have got a hint about the object that turned out to be a robot the first time you examined it.

There are lots of stupid puzzles in this game. Not to mention sudden death, guess-the-verb, invisible objects, all those friggin' doors and lack of abbreviations for things like INVENTORY and GO NORTHEAST. Did you know that there are ropes in the exercise room? They're not in the description, but CLIMB ROPE and you die or CUT ROPE to get it. It serves no purpose, though.

As a tutorial on how to write an adventure, I reckon it's a good example of how not to do it. It's very inefficient code with lots of repetition.

Incidentally, I found another bug that prevented you dropping anything. In line 6570, "6950" should be "6590". You've no doubt found and fixed that one.

User avatar
jgerrie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Nova Scotia
Contact:

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#14 Post by jgerrie » Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:45 am

I added the ropes to the gym description. It was like he was still tweaking the code when it went to press. And yes, the most bloated code I've ever seen. Tough getting it down to under 20K, I wonder if the Apple version was less buggy? But on the whole, I quite liked the story idea and the robot as avatar idea. I must have fixed the bug you mention because I could drop thing. It's all a blur now though...

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Space Derelict! (type-in)

#15 Post by Strident » Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:32 am

jgerrie wrote:
Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:45 am
I wonder if the Apple version was less buggy?
Possibly as the author was primarily an Apple II user, from what he's said online.

The Inform Designer's manual labels the book as a "turgid work". I've not read enough of the Inform Designer's Manual to know if that's a case of pot and kettles. ;)

I know Alex said he enjoyed Jim's later Poe Adventure; but this first one, despite the neat set-up, doesn't sound that good!

Post Reply