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BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One updates
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 9:06 pm
by Samwise
Hi,
I don't know how much interest this will spark but I thought I'd post a link to a couple of updates to the beeb disc ports of the Melbourne House Tolkien titles,
The Hobbit and
Lord of the Rings: Game One.
A very talented individual by the name of Kieran Mockford
recently announced his new universal versions on the BBC Micro Mailing List:
http://home.kindredintellect.com/beeb/S ... TheHobbit/
http://home.kindredintellect.com/beeb/S ... fTheRings/
The original Melbourne House disc versions were very limited in that they would only work on a BBC Micro Model B with an older 8271-based DFS disc interface. This means they wouldn't run on any other model of beeb (B+, Master 128, Master Compact, Master 512) or with any other form of DFS or ADFS, let alone any of the more modern filing systems. Kieran has painstakingly rebuilt the games so that they will now work with any disc controller or BBC Micro model, provided there is at least 16K of sideways RAM available.
This is also the first time the disc version of
The Lord of the Rings: Game One has been made available on the net (we think) and, even better, Kieran has made this originally text-only release into a fully illustrated adventure! He's managed to extract the graphics from the PC version of the title and integrated them directly into this new beeb disc image.
Having been able do some beta-testing for him, I can attest that this new version is far more polished than the original and the graphics are a welcome addition. In fact, IMHO, this new illustrated
Lord of the Rings: Game One plays even better than Melbourne House's own graphical version of
The Hobbit.
Also, if anyone's concerned, the gameplay - all the original buggy, frustrating AI and glaring tyographical errors - has not been interfered with ...
I'm sure Kieran would be
delighted to hear feedback, if anyone does give either of them a whirl.
In fact, this release has resulted in my current re-attempt to finally crack LotR, where I'm stumbling atm through the mapping of part 1 and, indirectly, led me to unearth this little corner of the web ...
Advertising pitch over.
Sam.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:40 am
by Gunness
Samwise wrote:Also, if anyone's concerned, the gameplay - all the original buggy, frustrating AI and glaring tyographical errors - has not been interfered with ...

Thank God
This sounds like an intriguing project - obviously a lot of work has gone into it. I'll give it a shot one of these days.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:01 pm
by Samwise
If you plan on giving either of them a go with an emulator, might I suggest that whilst the latest 2.0 releases of
B-Em are shaping up to be pretty phenonemal, you're probably best sticking with
BeebEm for these two. This is because, even run on a Master 128, the parser stills takes quite some time to unpack and display the response. I find that running them with BeebEm configured as a Master 128 and the Fixed Speed option (that B-Em doesn't currently offer) set to x2, they run along at a much more pleasing rate ...
Sam.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 10:47 pm
by Alastair
Samwise,
regarding part 2 of LotR, I actually worked out how to deal with the Gimli and the Elf problem without the need to send Gimli away. So if you need help when you reach that part just post a request. Now all I need to do is find my notes or try and remember...
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 2:24 pm
by Samwise
ah-hah, thanks for the offer, Alastair. Out of curiosity, which platform were you playing on?
I always ended up giving up before the end of the first part as an impetuous teen, but hopefully I'll get further with it this time.

I'm playing through it with a friend so hopefully that will give me encouragement to persevere.
I'll drop you a line when I get that far!
Sam.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 4:54 pm
by Alastair
It was on an emulated C64. I can't recall the emulator, but I do remember thinking it was a minor triumph to get part 2 to load the save game from the end of part 1. I hope you have an easier time when it comes to the transfer.
Incidentally, I played all four characters, which characters are you using?
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 5:03 pm
by Samwise
Yep, I meant which platform was the game released on, so C64 covers it. I don't think they'll be a huge difference between the solution for the beeb and C64 versions, say, but I imagine there will be platform-specific bugs.
I shouldn't have any problems loading in the separate parts. That was a bit of an issue with the cracked tape version of LotR:GO - which, until Kieran's universal version, was the only beeb version available on the net - in that you still had to save/load to cassette which was slow and a bit fiddly. This universal version is based off the disc version, though, and allows you to easily save/load to five save positions on disc.
It's very early days (currently mostly mapping), so we've selected Samwise to start. I have no idea how easy/hard it is with the various characters so I expect to just play it by ear. I know a few places where it looks like you may have to use the ring so whether we'll need to use Frodo for those I dunno yet.
Sam.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:33 pm
by Alastair
I have finally got around to trying the remastered BBC version. It's a bit different from the C64 version I played in that the C64 version has two parts, but in this version those two parts are further subdivided into two sections each. This complicates matters as it appears that you cannot move from section B back to section A: with no sections in the C64 version this restriction does not exist. Also, some unessential locations and objects (such as the pony) are absent in the BBC version - something to keep in mind when using a C64 LotR map or walk-through.
Returning to the remastered BBC version; for the most part I've explored Part 2 Section A, in doing so I have discovered a bug. When taking the mountain pass, going east from the "slippery path among deep snow drifts" (where the avalanche occurs) should take you to the "pathway onto a grassy slope" (at least that's what it's called in the C64 version) instead I find that I return to "the foot of the cruel mountain Caradhras," in other words, the beginning rather than the end of the pass.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:10 am
by Samwise
Yes, there are clearly some significant differences. The game was further divided for memory reasons and so some of the changes in the game are due to that limitation too. We're currently in part 1B - mainly because we've uncovered a problem with the loading/saving of our game from 1A into 1B. Kieran is looking into that for us so we'll hopefully see a fix eventually.
I'll bear in mind your bug report when we get into part 2A.
Meantime, the only real question I have had so far is wrt getting the candle from the very beginning of part 1A, if you're not Frodo. All the walkthroughs are from the perspective of playing as Frodo and expect you to wear the ring to get past the Hobbit guard. If you're not Frodo, he won't do this if you ask him to, so the only way I've found to get past the guard is to kill him ... which seems a bit ... errr ... violent.
Anyone got any suggestions on how to get the candle if you're not Frodo, without committing hobbiticide? I've tried everything I can think of - the mayor's office location with the dummy and the medallion make me think there might be some way to bluff past the guard or get rid of him, but I can't see any way to interact with anything in that office.
Sam.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:14 pm
by Alastair
Samwise wrote:Anyone got any suggestions on how to get the candle if you're not Frodo, without committing hobbiticide? I've tried everything I can think of - the mayor's office location with the dummy and the medallion make me think there might be some way to bluff past the guard or get rid of him, but I can't see any way to interact with anything in that office.
Sam.
There is no need to wear the ring, first you need to visit the mayor's office, then on returning to the entrance of the Mathom House simply go west.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:37 pm
by Samwise
Gah!
How did we miss that??!
We spent ages messing around in that office!
Sam.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:36 am
by Samwise
OK, looks like we've finished part 1B now.
Only confusing bit was the very end. We still haven't got a fix yet for the issue that stops us loading the save game from 1A into 1B. This means we've had to play through 1B without any of the items from part 1A - including the scroll that would have allowed us to defeat the 3 Black Riders with magic. It looks like to end part 1B you need to reach the eastern side of the bridge over the river with Strider in tow but without the Black Riders showing up. Most of the time the 3 of them are waiting for you when you get there, but after reloading the save position a few times to try different things (tho we're pretty sure there's no other way to get rid of them, without the scroll) we ended up lucking out on one occasion and they just weren't there on the other side of the bridge when we entered - so the part completed.
I assume there's no obvious way of making sure the 3 Black Riders aren't waiting for you when you get over the bridge to the last location? I only ask because the note about the BBC disc version included in the packaging does specifically state that the individual parts 1B, 2A, 2B should be completable without having completed the previous parts so that sort of implies there should be a reliable method for finishing the part, without having to keep re-loading the save position and waiting for the 3 Black Riders to disappear ...
Sam.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:30 pm
by Alastair
I'm going on memory here, but I think that there is a pattern to the movement of the black riders. If you work out the pattern you should be able to avoid them.
Re. loading the ending of 1A into 1B. This is something I haven't tried, but is it possible to switch to a blank disc and save the game, then on loading part 1B to reload from that (no longer) blank disc?
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:58 am
by Samwise
I've just spent a lot of time this evening reading through old Spectrum magazine scans, looking for LotR hints (now collated and submitted to the archive).
I now think that there are three ways to get past the three Black Riders which, I suspect, are purposely designed to appear on the eastern side of the last bridge at the end of Part 1B (as opposed to having just shown up entirely randomly):
- As you suggested Alastair, working out the timing to avoid them - as occasionally, they /aren't/ there.
- Get one or other of the hobbits to kill them with the swords found in the barrow, before Bree.
- Use one of the pale green jewels held by Sam, Frodo and Pippin to dispatch each of the Black Riders, by speaking the elven words written on the scroll given to you by Radagast in Part 1A.
My feeling is that the "correct" solution is to dispatch them with the jewels, though the other options are there, and can be used like we did if you can't load a save game into that particular part.
As for the SAVE problem, no that won't work - I think the problem is that when Kieran ripped out the custom 8271 DFS replacement code, he must have missed the bit where it SAVEs the game at the end of the part. I think it must be a different bit of code than the normal routine called by the SAVE command. Not to worry, I'm sure it won't be long before work dies down and Kieran gets a chance to look into it for us.
Meantime, it's not really slowing us down - I actually don't think there's that much of a need to load a part into the game beforehand, from what we've seen so far. It's not even as though the main game allows you to check your SCORE.
Sam.
Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd
Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:40 pm
by Alastair
Samwise wrote:Meantime, it's not really slowing us down - I actually don't think there's that much of a need to load a part into the game beforehand, from what we've seen so far. It's not even as though the main game allows you to check your SCORE.
Sam.
One problem that will arise is that Strider will not appear in part 2 if you cannot load the part 1B save game. (The non-appearance is not a bug, it's the designers way of encouraging you to play the whole game.)