BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One updates

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Samwise
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Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd

#16 Post by Samwise »

Given his stubbornness to actually do what he was supposed to in the last part, we're finding it hard to care. :)

We'll go as far as we can, I'm sure we can get pretty far in before the save thing becomes an issue ... It does say in the documentation that the individual parts are completable separately. However, I do suspect that we won't be able to get into Moria without the candle, so might be forced over Cahadras instead.

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Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd

#17 Post by Samwise »

Alastair wrote:Returning to the remastered BBC version; for the most part I've explored Part 2 Section A, in doing so I have discovered a bug. When taking the mountain pass, going east from the "slippery path among deep snow drifts" (where the avalanche occurs) should take you to the "pathway onto a grassy slope" (at least that's what it's called in the C64 version) instead I find that I return to "the foot of the cruel mountain Caradhras," in other words, the beginning rather than the end of the pass.
OK, we've finally had some time to make further progress. We've finished and mapped 2A now, and found the difference at the end of the pass over Caradhras that you mentioned. It's not a bug, though - as I speculated earlier, it's due to the splitting of part 2 into 2A & 2B. The pass loops back to the start because there is no way to reach the Dimrill Dale in part 2A of the BBC Micro version. The problem is if they had ended the part there then when you start part 2B it wouldn't make sense that you were starting in Moria and not the Dimrill Day, so instead the designers have restricted the first part so that you must finish by entering Moria. They made the same decision at the end of part 1A, cutting out the option to allow you to follow the highway all the way from the Shire to Bree and instead forcing you through Merry's house and under the hedge. Part 1B then starts in the old forest on the other side of the hedge.

We had a devil of a time starting in Moria in part 2B though, because of our current lack of save game functionality. In the end, we were forced to play as Frodo, as if you start it with another character there seems to be no way to get Frodo to light a match, as any commands are met with the response that it is too dark - even talking to other characters in the same location.

Without being able to load Gandalf in though, we've had to get past the Balrog by simply sneaking behind his back. Not quite as exciting as Tolkien's original version. :)

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Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd

#18 Post by Alastair »

That is just plain cruel, they let you struggle over the pass only to return you to the beginning so they can force you through Moria. They could have let you move a couple of locations along the pass, then have a location that states that further progress is impossible and you must turn back. Not only would this avoid the above frustration but it would also be in keeping with the book (not that they managed to keep to the spirit of the book in the rest of the game).
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Samwise
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Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd

#19 Post by Samwise »

You won't get any argument from me. ;)

The avalanche pretty much wipes out the entire party if you make the mistake of pushing on to the end of the pass all at once, too.

There's a lot of really odd stuff in this game which just doesn't fit with Tolkien's world - those photographs in the first location immediately spring to mind, not to mention the Hobbiton mayor's bizarre gramophone message and the Orc rock band. Judging from walkthroughs, there are even more annoyances on other platforms. It's not surprising the game only seems to get negative reviews these days. I'm keen to finish it and map the beeb version though, as I don't think anyone else has covered this version in online hints but I'm not convinced I'll want to go back and do it again anytime soon, once I've sated my nostalgia.

Kieran's graphics are awesome, though - I hope he gets round to sorting out the saving/loading at some point, as the game's interface is so much better than The Hobbit disc version on the beeb.

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Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd

#20 Post by Samwise »

We've finally finished.
Alastair wrote:Samwise,
regarding part 2 of LotR, I actually worked out how to deal with the Gimli and the Elf problem without the need to send Gimli away. So if you need help when you reach that part just post a request. Now all I need to do is find my notes or try and remember...
We still can't load in data from previous parts, so we didn't have Gimli with us when we reached the Taciturn Elf. I did read in a walkthrough that Gimli would cause trouble at that point. Out of curiosity, Alastair, what was your solution to avoid sending Gimli away? Just repeatedly SAY TO GIMLI "NO"?
Alastair wrote:One problem that will arise is that Strider will not appear in part 2 if you cannot load the part 1B save game. (The non-appearance is not a bug, it's the designers way of encouraging you to play the whole game.)
We didn't have Strider with us - but I don't think there's any point where he'd actually be of any use. Were you thinking of any specific reason we'd want Strider with us?

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Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd

#21 Post by Alastair »

Samwise wrote:We've finally finished.
Alastair wrote:Samwise,
regarding part 2 of LotR, I actually worked out how to deal with the Gimli and the Elf problem without the need to send Gimli away. So if you need help when you reach that part just post a request. Now all I need to do is find my notes or try and remember...
We still can't load in data from previous parts, so we didn't have Gimli with us when we reached the Taciturn Elf. I did read in a walkthrough that Gimli would cause trouble at that point. Out of curiosity, Alastair, what was your solution to avoid sending Gimli away? Just repeatedly SAY TO GIMLI "NO"?
This is for the C64 version so I cannot say how well it will fair on the Beeb, but I used:

SAY TO GIMLI "STOP"
SAY TO ELF "BLINDFOLD EVERYONE"
SAY TO GIMLI "STOP"

After the second "STOP" the Elf blindfolds everyone and takes them further into the forest. Gimli does not help with any subsequent problem but at least you discover his gift from Galadriel.
Samwise wrote:
Alastair wrote:One problem that will arise is that Strider will not appear in part 2 if you cannot load the part 1B save game. (The non-appearance is not a bug, it's the designers way of encouraging you to play the whole game.)
We didn't have Strider with us - but I don't think there's any point where he'd actually be of any use. Were you thinking of any specific reason we'd want Strider with us?

Sam.
That is "problem" as in the only way to make Strider appear in part 2 is to complete part 1B (and successfully load the save game), rather than Strider being of any use in solving any problem in part 2.
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Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd

#22 Post by Samwise »

Alastair wrote:This is for the C64 version so I cannot say how well it will fair on the Beeb,
Me either, as we can't load Gimli into the later parts. Still worth knowing if we get a fix down the line, thanks.
Alastair wrote:That is "problem" as in the only way to make Strider appear in part 2 is to complete part 1B (and successfully load the save game), rather than Strider being of any use in solving any problem in part 2.
Ahh, yes. Gotcha. That's what I thought.

Overall, even if we could load the full party into part 2B, I've no idea how you'd manage to get them through - it seems virtually impossible to get the couple of characters you do have with you, to keep following you through the dark tunnels, let alone a big party. They always seem to just hang around in the early locations.

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Re: BBC Micro - The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings: Game One upd

#23 Post by Samwise »

It's been a while since I've posted, so I thought I'd just share with you all a subsection of the map I've created for The Hobbit. The complete map and a walkthrough for the BBC Micro version will be submitted to CASA eventually, but here's a little taster. This is a map of the legendary Goblin Town maze which stopped me from progressing any further with the game when I was a kid, as it's very hard to map in the convential manner.
Melbourne House's The Hobbit - Goblin Town Map
Melbourne House's The Hobbit - Goblin Town Map
thehobbitbbcmicrodiscgoblintownmap.png (87.66 KiB) Viewed 2434 times
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