Saigon: The Final Days (Atari 400/800 & TRS-80)

Games for Spectrum, C64, Amstrad, Amiga, Apple ][ and the rest of the 8-bit and 16-bit platforms. Pleas for help, puzzles, bug reports etc.

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Moitcho
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Re: Saigon: The Final Days (Atari 400/800 & TRS-80)

#31 Post by Moitcho » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:18 pm

i got another replies from Mr.Scott. and it was like this:
On 2019/11/19 5:05, Scott Adams wrote:
Here is the only other catalog I have it listed in.
It looks like we listed as just before #2 (classic adventure is gone) but it has no number. Almost like we made it #1 instead. <--- this is about volume3, issue 4

Here is the 1st catalog it was in. I don’t have issue 3 and in issue 4 it is listed the same way but includes apple. I will send that separately. Other than this I simply don’t remember and I can’t ask Jyym has he has already died. Sorry.
<--- this is about volume3, issue 2
thanks you !! mr.Scott.
your collateral evidence has nailed the situation.

so there was no strict rule of numbering system for other venture series in the course of promotion.
it even HAD changed and overwritten existing/occupied slot for that reason.
so, even if TRS-80 having "Dogstar" in #5, it was just a case of the platform as i suspected.
a treat of different platforms' release was fluid and adaptive after all.

this was it. i think i could have gotten a vital answer to confirm all of mine, my senior friends', Garry's and TRS-80 users' opinions were right without conflict.

and as someone who is friend of Garry is already on hunt for further evidence of physical material (such like magazine article, ads, or any other type of listing), i think that will prove another state of the fact how "Saigon" having been taken in Other Venture series eventually.
it seems there could have many occasions happened in this subject like i said.
even if no reference number printed on, it was a result of transient nature of list.
that's why there is even a case on net which Saigon is treated as #1 of other venture series.

as for second question about existence of Apple ][ version, i got no answer though.

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Strident
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Re: Saigon: The Final Days (Atari 400/800 & TRS-80)

#32 Post by Strident » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:50 pm

That is a more useful catalogue. It's missing off the Internet Archive.

For reference, volume 3 issue 4 of the catalogue can be downloaded from here - http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/catalog ... d-vendors/

This is the page in question...
Image

And here is the entry for Saigon...
Image

The other three games are clearly labelled as Other Ventures #2, Other Ventures #3 and Other Ventures #4 but Saigon has no label.

Saigon is clearly listed in the Apple 2 index, by the way. I'm not sure what you were trying to find out about that version?
Image

If this catalogue is being used as evidence of anything, then you really need to take into account that it also includes this...
Image

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Strident
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Re: Saigon: The Final Days (Atari 400/800 & TRS-80)

#33 Post by Strident » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:05 pm

For reference, here is a link volume 3 issue 2 (Warning - large file size)
http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/content/ ... al_3-2.pdf

As Scott says, the Saigon page is the same there aside from the fact the Apple ][ version is not listed.

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Moitcho
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Re: Saigon: The Final Days (Atari 400/800 & TRS-80)

#34 Post by Moitcho » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:20 pm

isn't it clear yet ?
it became rather clearer for me.

i think i have those pdfs. and later ones has listed "Darkstar" as #5 for TRS-80. that is sure ONE THING. but how other platform's situation is like is ANOTHER.
as there seems to be shifting about Saigon.
as he said in his reply, he doesn't hold details, and Jyym Pearson had passed away, so he can't get what Mr.Jyym could have which is apparently more than his anymore. (im starting to think about reaching out to Norman Sailer or Robyn Pearson to ask this if possible)

seeing Saigon was in the place of #1 in older catalog (this is important part, the time order) and even without label, Mr.Scott said it was like decision to allocate Saigon to #1, by removing original "Classic Adventure" from the list as if its just erased and forgotten. this is what i called afterward thing.

so there was possible period when Saigon was treated as Other Venture in magazine or other media. maybe with reference to allocated slot number as well.
but in that regard, even slot number isn't important anymore if considering afterward things happened repeatedly and all depends on timing.
while ATARI and APPLE version has Classic Adventure in #1, and no Dogstar had been released for those platforms, naturally Saigon could have gone into #5 as sequel. (this is the structure of mine and my friend's memory which is along with timeline. )

besides, Crowley Manor, Escape from Traam, Earthquake, and Saigon had been made in this order and released as text only version in advance in 1981. (which are the first occasion, aren't they ?)
this is the primal reason why i said "Jyym Pearson's works look like contract package with AI" in former post. and its also elemental and existing form BEFORE Dogstar getting in.

the ported version of Apple ][ suggests this more clearly.
all were on Renewal/advanced system (thanks to Norm Sailor i suppose).
it requires 48KB from the beginning to meet the needs of market of the era, Graphic+Text system.

the price list of Apple ][ version is which i also have found somewhere while on search.
i see Saigon's name in it but i simply can't confirm since i never saw it so far in real or even on net.
it might be extremely rare and lost, or maybe only on paper but no physical copies. but even if no actual release, still i can't deny the chance of few, some kind of "leaked" version having been spread and taken as legitimate copy.

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Strident
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Re: Saigon: The Final Days (Atari 400/800 & TRS-80)

#35 Post by Strident » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:49 pm

Moitcho wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:20 pm
isn't it clear yet ?
it became rather clearer for me.
I'm sorry but I'm finding your post quite difficult to parse.

From the catalogue pages, it appears that there is strong evidence to add Death Planet/Dog Star to the Other Ventures group.

Saigon seems to be repeatedly "grouped" with Jyym's other games in the catalogue which is to be expected.

You could certainly argue that it's placing as the first game on that page is significant. But rather strangely it seems quite deliberately not to have been given the tag "Other Ventures", despite appearing on a page where three other games were specifically still labelled with that tag. Did they make that choice because they thought it would be confusing to officially label it as part of the series? Was it just because that branding was retiring? It seems difficult to justify tagging it as part of the Other Ventures when the promotional literature from the time avoids doing so.

I'm sure that if your recollections are correct about the game's placement in the series then some physical evidence, in terms of contemporary reviews or official Adventure International literature from the time will turn up at some point. Hopefully some of those missing catalogues can be tracked down. They really should be preserved online, anyway.

I can see an argument for adding a "Jyym Pearson" group but, as those games will appear in CASA when clicking on his name, that's probably a little redundant.

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Moitcho
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Re: Saigon: The Final Days (Atari 400/800 & TRS-80)

#36 Post by Moitcho » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:45 pm

Did they make that choice because they thought it would be confusing to officially label it as part of the series? Was it just because that branding was retiring? It seems difficult to justify tagging it as part of the Other Ventures when the promotional literature from the time avoids doing so.
this.

as for this subject, their course of promotion looks mess, causing confusion and dissolved the series in the very end.
personally, i feel its an adaptive case of "wrong take for wrong move" thing. even though there were many ways to fix it. :(

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