Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

Games for Spectrum, C64, Amstrad, Amiga, Apple ][ and the rest of the 8-bit and 16-bit platforms. Pleas for help, puzzles, bug reports etc.

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Alastair
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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#16 Post by Alastair » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:33 pm

Juan wrote:Have you noticed that there seems to be another map or something similar? Look at the game with an editor and you'll see that right above the already found map indicating the location of one of the treasures there is another one that says "It is marked". It seems to give the location of the dungeon cell where you use one of the matches, plus a place marked "PATENT" (?)
That's the message you receive when you look at the match box, thereby giving you a clue to use a match in a dungeon.
Juan wrote:There is also a place that has "a little door". This would be the place to use the potion, but where is this little door located?
This is the location that warns you about the dragon guards, but as you know, your size does not prevent you from travelling through that door. Perhaps you were meant to change your size but the programmer forgot to implement this particular puzzle.

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Alex
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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#17 Post by Alex » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:49 pm

I just gave the game a quick look. I'm still mapping all 123 locations. I never used MESS before. Is it possible to save your game? Pressing shift+F7 doesn't seem to work.

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#18 Post by Alastair » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:06 pm

Alex wrote:I never used MESS before. Is it possible to save your game? Pressing shift+F7 doesn't seem to work.
I found that I couldn't save the state in the latest version so I went back to an earlier version (0.140). Even then, when 'starting up' the Einstein I have to run "Alice" and wait until the text screen shows before I can reload a save state, though after that I can load and save states without further hassle until I quit the emulator. One more thing, if you wish to have a menu bar when running an emulated system then under Options > Default System Options > Miscellaneous make sure that there is a tick next to 'Use New UI'.

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#19 Post by Alex » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:25 pm

Alastair wrote:
Alex wrote:I never used MESS before. Is it possible to save your game? Pressing shift+F7 doesn't seem to work.
I found that I couldn't save the state in the latest version so I went back to an earlier version (0.140). Even then, when 'starting up' the Einstein I have to run "Alice" and wait until the text screen shows before I can reload a save state, though after that I can load and save states without further hassle until I quit the emulator. One more thing, if you wish to have a menu bar when running an emulated system then under Options > Default System Options > Miscellaneous make sure that there is a tick next to 'Use New UI'.
Thanks. It's a bit late now. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#20 Post by Juan » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:11 am

Alastair wrote:
Juan wrote:Have you noticed that there seems to be another map or something similar? Look at the game with an editor and you'll see that right above the already found map indicating the location of one of the treasures there is another one that says "It is marked". It seems to give the location of the dungeon cell where you use one of the matches, plus a place marked "PATENT" (?)
That's the message you receive when you look at the match box, thereby giving you a clue to use a match in a dungeon.
Juan wrote:There is also a place that has "a little door". This would be the place to use the potion, but where is this little door located?
This is the location that warns you about the dragon guards, but as you know, your size does not prevent you from travelling through that door. Perhaps you were meant to change your size but the programmer forgot to implement this particular puzzle.
I wonder if this game is bugged. Some commands in the list are not accepted, the little door is passable without the potion... maybe that's why the ring (or whatever is there) is not being found in the cup?

Juan
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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#21 Post by Juan » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:17 am

Alex wrote:I just gave the game a quick look. I'm still mapping all 123 locations. I never used MESS before. Is it possible to save your game? Pressing shift+F7 doesn't seem to work.
I use version 0.130, and saving & loading is very easy. Just press Scroll Lock and you'll get a message saying "Mode: Partial Emulation UI: Enabled", then it's just a matter of Shift + F7 to save in any of 10 possible positions.

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#22 Post by Alex » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:34 am

Juan wrote:I use version 0.130, and saving & loading is very easy. Just press Scroll Lock and you'll get a message saying "Mode: Partial Emulation UI: Enabled", then it's just a matter of Shift + F7 to save in any of 10 possible positions.
Thanks, I didn't know you have to press the scroll lock first. Now it works fine. I don't have a lot of time these days but if your still stuck after the weekend I'll give it a try.

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#23 Post by Alex » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:03 am

Just a fast update.

I finished my map but failed to reach 2 of the 123 locations. One being the river which doesn't seem very important because looking at the programm code it seems you drown when you enter it and the other being the lost property room. This is the location east of the room with the ring shaped depression. It contains one of the six treasures you have to collect.

I decided trying to decode the game. I'm now able to go to whatever location I like to go and to take all the objects but it takes some time to check all the locations and I hope I'll finish this one of these days.

I agree leaving the maze in the forest appears to be randomly, but I will try to find some pattern if possible.

I found 5 treasures. I guess the diamonds are the sixth treasure but I also didn't find a way how to get a point for dropping them. I tried to clean them in the fountain but alas no result.

I still have to find a way to retreive the ring properly and there also is a piece of cake I haven't found yet. Maybe I overlooked it and I also don't know what's the use of it.

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#24 Post by Alastair » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:19 am

Alex, regarding the number of locations do you count the locations where the description can change (e.g., the haystack/burnt out haystack location) as one or two locations?

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#25 Post by Juan » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:31 am

Alex wrote:I found 5 treasures. I guess the diamonds are the sixth treasure but I also didn't find a way how to get a point for dropping them. I tried to clean them in the fountain but alas no result.
I suppose you found the scepter.
I still have to find a way to retreive the ring properly and there also is a piece of cake I haven't found yet. Maybe I overlooked it and I also don't know what's the use of it.


So I take it you found an "improper" way of retrieving it. Was it inside the cup, as that message suggests?

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#26 Post by Alex » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:59 pm

Alastair wrote:regarding the number of locations do you count the locations where the description can change (e.g., the haystack/burnt out haystack location) as one or two locations?
as two locations because inside the gamecode they are also two different locations. Without these "double rooms" the game has 118 different rooms.
Alex wrote:I agree leaving the maze in the forest appears to be randomly, but I will try to find some pattern if possible.
I did some more checks but it definitely appears to be random to leave this location.
Juan wrote:I suppose you found the scepter.
Yes
Juan wrote:Was it inside the cup, as that message suggests?
It appears to be. The starting location of the ring is the same as the cup. The cup is a visible object (has value 1) and the ring isn't (has value 0) just like the coin for instance (when an object has value 2 it is in your inventory). You have to do something to make these objects "appear". In the case of the ring however I don't know what. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to play again this week. But next week I'll try again.

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#27 Post by Juan » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:43 am

Alex wrote:It appears to be. The starting location of the ring is the same as the cup. The cup is a visible object (has value 1) and the ring isn't (has value 0) just like the coin for instance (when an object has value 2 it is in your inventory). You have to do something to make these objects "appear". In the case of the ring however I don't know what. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to play again this week. But next week I'll try again.
When you have the time, see if you can clarify these two points for us:

1- Is there anything to do at the room with the giant mushroom and the caterpillar?

2- Is the potion for crossing the little door at the location that warns about the dragon guards or for something else? This is not clear because you can go through the door without drinking the shrinking potion.

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#28 Post by Alastair » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:50 pm

Alex wrote:
Juan wrote:Was it inside the cup, as that message suggests?
It appears to be. The starting location of the ring is the same as the cup. The cup is a visible object (has value 1) and the ring isn't (has value 0) just like the coin for instance (when an object has value 2 it is in your inventory). You have to do something to make these objects "appear". In the case of the ring however I don't know what.
Is this the location where you find the cup or the location where the cup currently resides? Furthermore, should you be carrying the cup or not?

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#29 Post by Alex » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:45 pm

Juan wrote: 1- Is there anything to do at the room with the giant mushroom and the caterpillar?
According to the programm code this is the location where you should be able to obtain the piece of cake somehow. When you eat the piece of cake after drinking the potion you obtain your normal size again. I don't know how you can obtain it without cheating like I did :) .
Juan wrote: 2- Is the potion for crossing the little door at the location that warns about the dragon guards or for something else? This is not clear because you can go through the door without drinking the shrinking potion.
Alas I also didn't find any use for drinking the potion or eating the cake afterwards. It does not seem to be necessarry. The problem is this game consist of two files (alice.com and alice.dat) and I only know how to decode the main part of the dat file. The com file is some compiled programm code and I don't know how to decompile it because my knowledge of the Tatung Einstein is zero. Unfortunately the information about the actions you have to make are not inside the datafile.
Alastair wrote:Is this the location where you find the cup or the location where the cup currently resides? Furthermore, should you be carrying the cup or not?
Strangely when you take the cup to another location the location of the ring inside the programm code remains the same. However I noticed within this game when objects are in the posession of someone or something their location isn't altered untill the object is taken from it's container. It appears it should fall out of the cup somehow according to the programm code. When you drop the ring in the magistrate room a secret door to the east opens and you are able to obtain the sceptre.

Did either of you manage to enter the river? I don't think it is very important but somehow you should be able to enter the river and drown without using the boat.

To solve the game two problems are to be solved I guess:
-How to obtain the ring
-How to obtain a point for dropping the bag of diamonds

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Re: Alice and the March Hare - Tatung Einstein

#30 Post by Alastair » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:03 pm

Alex, thanks for your input, I guess I will have to try everything I can think of in the original cup location.
Alex wrote:Did either of you manage to enter the river? I don't think it is very important but somehow you should be able to enter the river and drown without using the boat.
No, I haven't managed to enter the river.

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