Untangling Dog Stars...

Games for Spectrum, C64, Amstrad, Amiga, Apple ][ and the rest of the 8-bit and 16-bit platforms. Pleas for help, puzzles, bug reports etc.

Moderator: Alastair

Message
Author
User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Untangling Dog Stars...

#1 Post by Strident » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:44 pm

Trying to untangle some of the games that are based off the same BASIC type-in sources sometimes makes my head hurt...

I mean, you end up looking at stuff like this... which all appear to be based of Dog Star Adventure... and this is only what is on the C64... it doesn't even include any other formats...
dog-star-brain-hurts.jpg
dog-star-brain-hurts.jpg (164.39 KiB) Viewed 2611 times
Dog Star Adventure - By Lance Micklus
aka Death Planet, Dog Star 2
Dog Star Adventure
http://solutionarchive.com/game/id%2C39 ... nture.html
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=2241&d=18&h=0

---->

Star Wars Adventure
http://solutionarchive.com/game/id%2C59 ... nture.html
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=12947&d=18&h=0

Darth Vader Adventure
http://solutionarchive.com/game/id%2C85 ... nture.html
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=1993&d=18&h=0

Death Star Adventure
http://www.gb64.com/game.php?id=10839&d=18&h=0

User avatar
Garry
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#2 Post by Garry » Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:38 am

Anything C64 related makes my head hurt, too. This one is particularly bad. They can't even get the original author's name right and they all copy off one another, rather than referring to the original source.

The description given in the plot is based on one of the fanciful ports, not the original. The original TRS-80 version did not make any direct references to Star Wars, except that the princess was named Leya. There was no image of Darth Vader on the title screen.

This was originally a commercial game, released through The Program Exchange, if memory serves me correctly, then a type-in in SoftSide, then a type-in in The Captain 80 book of BASIC adventures, then a type-in in Computer & Video Games some years later. These were all for the TRS-80.

Adventure International released a commercial version for the TRS-80 and CoCo. It first appeared in their catalogue vol. 2, no. 5, p. 11 as 'Death Planet: The Dog Star Adventure'.

Anything else is an unofficial port. According to CASA policy, they can be noted, but should not have their own entries.

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#3 Post by Strident » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:37 am

Yeah, luckily I'm fairly familiar with the history of Dog Star, as there are several excellent articles on it and we have the details written up pretty well in the entry already.

I'm going to attempt to amalgamate the various entries and also list some of the versions that we haven't even logged.

The C64 library is particularly messy. There are probably lots of reasons for this; the way the original games had often been ported to PET or VIC20 first, before they made it to the C64; the thriving PD scene, which helped circulate multiple versions; the fact that you've got multiple active communities in different regions around the world, rather than something like the Spectrum which is a lot more contained.

I've nothing against all these versions, in many cases they're just as important as the originals (as they were often played by more people) and I actually like to record the information about them, but I think it does the original games more justice if everything is grouped together.

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#4 Post by Strident » Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:33 pm

I think I'm tempted to keep the main Dog Star entry for straight ports of Dog Star Adventure, and then have a second Star Wars Adventure/Darth Vader Adventure et al. page for all the various versions that are obviously based on the Dog Star code but have shoe-horned in extra elements and changed all the generic references to Star Wars ones.

I think that would potentially be clearer; both entries would be linked together but it would still minimise the number of overall entries.

But perhaps, a single Dog Star entry, would still be better. I'll have a go at pulling together various links and see how easy it is to follow in a single entry.

User avatar
jgerrie
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Nova Scotia
Contact:

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#5 Post by jgerrie » Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:44 am

In case you were interested I made a conversion fix-up of Dogstar Adventure for the TRS-80 MC-10 based on the TRS-80 Senior code. It can be played here by clicking on the screen:
http://faculty.cbu.ca/jgerrie/MC10/JG_M ... tures.html

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#6 Post by Strident » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:09 am

Adding this to the potential list of games "inspired" by Dog Star...

Death Star
http://solutionarchive.com/game/id%2C76 ... +Star.html

...more investigation needed to check if it's related, and if it lines up... There's almost a family tree forming with these games... games that are direct ports, games inspired by the original (or one of the ports)... and then games inspired by mangled inspirations, without necessarily even being aware of the original Dog Star.

User avatar
Garry
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#7 Post by Garry » Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:05 am

A little more info on the origins of Dog Star Adventure:

This was originally published by TRS-80 Software Exchange for the TRS-80 Model 1 Level II. It was first advertised in SoftSide, vol. 1, no. 7, April 1979, p. 2.

It was then published by SoftSide Publications as a BASIC type-in listing for the TRS-80 in SoftSide, vol. 1, no. 8, May 1979, pp. 8–15, 17–23. This is reputed to be the earliest ever type-in listing of a text adventure.

It was next published by SoftSide Publications as a BASIC type-in listing for the Apple II in Appleseed, vol. 1, no. 1, January 1980, pp. 35–?. (The magazine was renamed to SoftSide Apple Edition after the first issue.)

It was ripped off as 'Mighty Mormar' by Charlie Bartlett and published by MICRO-80 as a BASIC type-in listing for the TRS-80 in MICRO-80, issue 12, November 1980, pp. 24–29.

The original version was next published by 80 Northwest Publishing as a BASIC type-in listing for the TRS-80 in The Captain 80 book of BASIC adventures, pp. 87–96.

It was then published by EMAP National Publications as a BASIC type-in listing for the TRS-80 in Computer & Video Games, issue 8, vol. 1, no. 8, June 1982, pp. 58-60, 63.

It was unofficially ported to the C64 by David Malmberg and published by Digital Marketing PD on disk #146 and Stonysoft on disk #0289. Dates unknown. There are many variations of this version.

It was unofficially ported to the TI-99/4A by Barry Traver. Date unknown.

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#8 Post by Strident » Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:47 am

Really useful info, thanks.

I wasn't even aware of Mighty Mormar!

The David Malmbeg version originated on the Commodore PET, I believe, before it itself was ported across to the C64 (and probably initially the Vic20). At lots of those PET games, and later VIC20/C64, floated around the various US Commodore user groups, passed between members on disk, before they ended up being added (often much later) to the bigger PD repositories.

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#9 Post by Strident » Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:03 am

I hadn't particularly started looking at Dog Star on other machines... My initial thoughts were just to sort out the C64 side... But I guess that, alongside that, documenting all the other ports would be useful.

(Although they're "unofficial", porting to other BASICs on different machines always seems something that the author of a type-in would be fine with... However, porting to another machine and then selling that listing to a magazine under your own name is definitely not okay... And we've seen that has happened more than a few times!)

Back to the Mighty Mormar variant...

Must've been on the Spectravideo/MSX at some point...
mighty-mormar-msx.PNG
mighty-mormar-msx.PNG (176.27 KiB) Viewed 2538 times
(As an aside, House of Frankenstein will probably be another unofficial platform to add to for http://solutionarchive.com/game/id%2C39 ... nture.html )

Going on the Micro-80 index, Mighty Mormar bugfixes were included in the December 1980 issue, p.12.
Edit: added link.. https://archive.org/details/MICRO-80_Is ... U/page/n13

It would be worth also noting that Micro-80 also supplied Mighty Mormar on the cassette linked to the issue when the listing was published.

Also, later mention here... https://archive.org/details/MICRO-80_Is ... U/page/n3/

Edit2: I notice that we have a listing for a Mighty Moramar, which is also listed in various other places online.
http://solutionarchive.com/game/id%2C78 ... ramar.html

...I'm guessing that this might be the same game as Mighty Mormar.
Added to the list to check at some point: http://cpmarchives.classiccmp.org/trs80 ... del%201/M/

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#10 Post by Strident » Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:58 am

I notice that our existing Dog Star entry doesn't currently specifically mention the Adventure International "Other Venture #5" commercial release.
e.g.
https://www.mocagh.org/loadpage.php?getgame=deathplanet

Maybe that got lost/removed accidentally at some point.

My gut feeling about the Dog Star games is still, given the complexity of the direct descendants (before factoring in all the branches which had the Star Wars-stuff put back in) that we'd be better with a single entry for the "pure" Dog Star games and then a second entry with all the many Star Wars and heavily modified variants. That would also make a lot of sense to increase clarity from a solutions point of view.

Even if the final intention would be to have a single entry, working on two separate entries initially would probably help work out which variants are straight ports and which variants are more unrecognisable deviations from the original map & puzzles.

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#11 Post by Strident » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:32 pm

The Softside version was sold, by them, on disk later on.

The TRS-80 version was later republished by Misosys as part of the disk compilation Lance Micklus' Greatest Games; and also included on several similar compilations by other retailers.

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#12 Post by Strident » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:44 pm

Interesting reference in the Washington Apple Pi Journal, November 1983
https://archive.org/details/manualzilla ... 3/page/36/

...indicating an Apple computer port, I guess but also including the following comment...
FORT - Another name for Dog Star Adventure
(Like we need more variations!)

Also, here's Lance himself talking about new versions of Dog Star...
https://archive.org/details/softside-ma ... venture%22
lance.PNG
lance.PNG (143 KiB) Viewed 2519 times

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#13 Post by Strident » Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:26 pm

I will get around to sitting down and sorting these out at some point soon.

It's not getting any easier, though, as Jason Dyer has just submitted a link to the listing for Mighty Moramar... and, yeah, it looks like yet another version of Dogstar...
http://solutionarchive.com/game/id%2C78 ... ramar.html

Edit: I've just noticed that this was flagged up by Garry earlier in the thread too, with the name "Mighty Mormar"... I knew I'd seen the name somewhere recently. (for some reason it'd been entered into our database as Mighty Moramar)
It was ripped off as 'Mighty Mormar' by Charlie Bartlett and published by MICRO-80 as a BASIC type-in listing for the TRS-80 in MICRO-80, issue 12, November 1980, pp. 24–29.
Edit2: You can tell how long it is since I made this thread as I've already flagged up all this stuff and have since completely forgotten about it. :) It's been a busy few weeks for me!!!

User avatar
Strident
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#14 Post by Strident » Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:21 am

I'm adding Mars Mission as another game to look at, given the synopsis on starting the game. The Dog Star/Death Star appears to have been turned into a castle in this case.
http://solutionarchive.com/game/id%2C54 ... ssion.html

User avatar
Garry
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Untangling Dog Stars...

#15 Post by Garry » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:21 am

FWIW, I've been trying to find some missing Apple II games and came across the Apple II Mars Mission. I can't get it to understand any of my input, but, as it's written in BASIC, I can look at the source code and see that it's not based on Dog Star Adventure and looks different to the other Mars Missions. I've put it in the too-hard basket for the time being. I need to learn more about all the intracacies of the Apple II.

Post Reply