A new site?

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Gunness
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A new site?

#1 Post by Gunness » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:51 pm

CASA has been around for ten years now, and I believe it's time to do something more with it. After much complaining and moaning, site users David Lodge and Mr. Creosote have very graciously offered to lend a hand with the site's further development.

Why a new site?
I think that, between all users of the site, there's a great deal of knowledge of adventure games, much more than for "just" solutions, maps and so forth. So my hope is to create a better site that will remain a repository for walkthroughs etc., but will also encompass game ratings, reviews, recommendations and more.
There are several sites like this, such as Adventureland, IFDB and IF Wiki, but none of them really cover classic games the way I’ve outlined above. Thoughts?

Model
There’s still quite some way to go, but for now, I’d very much like to hear your input on this mockup, courtesy of Dave and Mr. Creosote. The mockup doesn’t really do anything and needs a graphics overhaul, but I’d like to hear your opinion on the contents.

User involvement
How can I make it the most attractive to become an active user on the site? ("active" here both meaning posting in the forum as well as helping to maintain game data and submitting material)

1) Make it obvious who has submitted what
2) Try to establish a community around the site
3) Create "awards" in the form of small icons (stars) or similar to denote the most active users/reviewers etc.
4) Having various people head up the sections of the various computer systems

Re. 1) This seems to be well covered by the current model
Re. 2) I'm thinking of letting people have a rather extensive user profile, with fields such as "favourite system", "favourite genre" and "other interests". The site already seems to be largely carried by regular visitors who know each other to some extent, and hopefully an extensive profile will allow new users to get to know the regulars more easily.
Re. 3) I know, I know, this is purely gimmickal, but on some sites it seems to work. At any rate, having an icon saying "Master reviewer" on your profile might have an attractive quality.
Re. 4) It is my hope that some of you, who have special knowledge of a certain machine would be interested in assisting with a given area, be it Spectrum, C16, Apple II or Amstrad.

Now, if I knew exactly how to accomplish all my wishes I'd probably be working for Google or Coca-Cola or some other huge corporation :wink: But I don't, and I'm all open to suggestions.

Of course, volunteers are more than welcome :) In particular, if there's anyone out there who can do some proper design or decent graphics, please contact me.

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#2 Post by Mark » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:28 pm

Apart from the design (which you mentioned isn't final at all anyway), it looks great. No idea if a design like this means more work for you or not, though.

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Re: A new site?

#3 Post by Eriorg » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:00 pm

It certainly sounds promising! :thumb: Such a website with a lot of info -- not just solutions -- about obscure (i.e. not from Infocom or other famous publishers) old text adventures will be useful: it's not always that easy to find that kind of info on the Internet, I feel, unless you're willing to laboriously search scanned old magazines...

I do wonder if some of the features (about "community", for instance) might be a bit too similar to the IFDB, though. I don't know. I just hope we don't risk duplicating too much work if we want to update both sites about old games...
Gunness wrote:Model
There’s still quite some way to go, but for now, I’d very much like to hear your input on this mockup, courtesy of Dave and Mr. Creosote. The mockup doesn’t really do anything and needs a graphics overhaul, but I’d like to hear your opinion on the contents.
It sounds good. It's a bit messy with my version (9.64 on Windows) of the Opera browser, but that shouldn't be too hard to fix.

With "Users currently playing this game", I guess we could provide links to the forum threads with people currently trying to solve this game, so that we can help or ask for help?
Gunness wrote:4) Having various people head up the sections of the various computer systems
[...]
Re. 4) It is my hope that some of you, who have special knowledge of a certain machine would be interested in assisting with a given area, be it Spectrum, C16, Apple II or Amstrad.
I know some things about the Amstrad CPC, so I might assist, but what should I do?

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#4 Post by Alastair » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:07 pm

My memory must be going, I cannot recall starting this game let alone creating a map for it!


On a more serious note. How will these pages be indexed? Will there still be alphabetical lists of all the adventures, with an indication next to each name as to if the game has a solution, map, hints, notes, etc.?


Returning to the example page. What happens if you click on "I'm playing this" but for whatever reason you stop playing the game without completing it, will there be a cancel "I'm playing this" button? (This idea could also be extended to the other buttons.)


Finally, on the subject of listing within each page, for the sake of clarity would it not be better to have vertical rather than horizontal listing?

In other words, instead of:

Platforms: Spectrum BBC Electron Atari C64 PC


and

Users who like this also enjoyed: Enchanter Zork III Red Moon

Have:

Platforms: Spectrum
_________BBC
_________Electron
_________Atari
_________C64
_________PC

and:

Users who like this also enjoyed: Enchanter
-__________________________Zork III
-__________________________Red Moon

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Looks good

#5 Post by hackersanon » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:54 pm

Looks good..

I'm in agreement with the opinion about dividing the games/resources into their computer formats.

If possible, list the games in their formats as well as the tips/maps etc.

By that, I mean that you might have a map for the C64 version of game xyz, but it's been established that it works on the C64 and Spectrum versions?

(Does that make sense??! My brain hurts!)

And yes, I'm slightly biased :)

Regards,
Gerard

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#6 Post by terri » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:58 pm

I like the layout of the mockup. Alastair's suggestion about a vertical listing sounds good.

I have no recollection of saying what I said about Scott Adam's game, though maybe you only wrote this as an example. I didn't think he wrote it. I'm curious - you did make it up, didn't you?

I'm resigned that things need to change. It's been 10 years already? Now, I know I am gettiing old, as it seems like it was only 5 years ago when you changed the last time. But please don't get too complicated for this old lady. Though it does look simple to navigate.

A question - if one plays a game under one platform or system, how is one to know when and if it is also available under other plaltforms. Some like wuite a lot of cross-checking and referencing will be needed. And this will be easier for you to maintain?

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#7 Post by Gunness » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:19 am

Thanks for the replies so far. Let me see if I can give a reply that covers all of you :)

@Mark (and Terri):
More work? Yes and no. Basic maintenance, such as updating of data and uploading of new solutions/maps should be a lot easier. But the model also allows for a lot more information on each game. And this, dear readers, is where you come in :) As I have neither the time, nor the knowledge, to enter all the required information, I will need your help. The plan is that users will be able to add information online, so if you've just started playing a new Amstrad game, you're encouraged to enter a synopsis along with info on theme, machine etc. Of course I'll do my part as well.

@Eriorg:
I'm right with you there. I think that all those more or less obscure games is one area which isn't covered very well elsewhere. The world doesn't need yet another Infocom/Magnetic Scrolls site, but it would be nice to have a comprehensive, one-stop website with info on every 8-bit title released. As you, I see the potential for overlapping other sites. If you have specific ideas for distinguishing CASA from sites like IFDB, please let me know.
Re: community, I don't know to what extent people will embrace the idea. I think it has a lot of potential if used for mutual inspiration. There are thousands of games out there, and many of them really are a waste of time :) By using the ratings (and reviews), hopefully people can be guided towards the titles that have some merit.
With "Users currently playing this game", I guess we could provide links to the forum threads with people currently trying to solve this game, so that we can help or ask for help?
Interesting. Should this be automated? A current concern is that if we integrate too much with the forum, things can get fairly chaotic whenever the forum software is updated. Which it is fairly often.

As for assistance, eg. for the Amstrad, let me get back to you.

@Alastair
Yes, there will still be some kind of overview, listed by machine, year of release, title or genre, for that matter.
Yes, button clicks can be reverted so that if you stop playing, you won't be listed any longer.
Re. the layout, we'll look into it!

@Gerard
Good point! We'll adapt an "innocent until proven guilty" policy, meaning that unless we know otherwise, a solution should fit all formats. If the Speccy version is making a fuss, we'll make a separate file for it.
Jeez, my brain hurts, too!

@Terri
Yes, the entries are complete bogus, but thanks for lending your name!
It is certainly our goal that the new site should be easy to use AND to maintain. So solution updates etc. should be easier to accomplish.
As for your platforms question, this info will have to be entered into the system by me or other users. And it won't happen overnight, that's for sure.

We still have a lot of planning and ironing out to do. Right now, I'd very much like to hear more about your view on user involvement. How can I encourage this? Will it be too similar to other sites?

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#8 Post by Mark » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:25 pm

I guess I could write a tiny bit about the games I played, not a big deal.

As for the similarities to other sites: Yes, there will be some. The layout reminded me already of game sites like Lemon64. But hey, it is a good layout, so I wouldn't bother much.

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#9 Post by Gunness » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:07 pm

The synopsis ought to be fairly simple, and other than that, your best guess as to the genre of a game is as good as the next person's :)

Yes, it's kinda difficult to come up with a fresh design. Then again, I'm not a designer, so I'm mostly aiming for functionality. Hence sites tend to look much the same.

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#10 Post by Amby » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:47 am

I would love to see a layout like ths mockup - it makes these great old games somehow look fresh.

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#11 Post by Eriorg » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:57 am

Gunness wrote:
With "Users currently playing this game", I guess we could provide links to the forum threads with people currently trying to solve this game, so that we can help or ask for help?
Interesting. Should this be automated? A current concern is that if we integrate too much with the forum, things can get fairly chaotic whenever the forum software is updated. Which it is fairly often.
I don't believe it could really be automated (how?); I just thought forum members could add a link to the relevant thread(s) on the game page when they start or participate in such a thread (and later, when the game is solved in that thread, they should also be able to mention it).

What could be automated then, though, is a list on the home page with links to these threads (and the relevant games pages) with something like "We're currently playing these games! Will you join the fun and be the first to beat them?" as a title.

To avoid problems if the forum gets a new address, I guess the links to forum threads shouldn't be stored internally with complete links but with just the topic IDs (for example: not http://solutionarchive.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2967 , but only "2967"). Or maybe it's not even necessary?

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#12 Post by Mr Creosote » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:25 am

To clarify the point about forum integration a bit more: The issue of URLs can certainly be solved the way you say, but the real problem lies deeper: The forum's database layout. We would need to access that database directly in order to have any such functionality. Not hard to implement in the end, but if Jacob, for example, upgrades the forum to a newer version (or even more so if he installs a completely different forum), that layout may change and we would have to rewrite those parts of the site which are using the forum. Every time. Seeing that it took... five years (?) to get someone to do some programming for the site this time, this doesn't seem like a very good idea.

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#13 Post by Eriorg » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:08 pm

Thank you for your reply, Mr Creosote. Unfortunately, I don't really understand it; what I was imagining was a text box (in the game page) in which the members of the website could simply copy-paste the URL of the forum thread(s), and I can't see why that would require direct access to the forum database. But I can only trust you: I've no experience of creating websites myself!

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#14 Post by Mr Creosote » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:22 pm

Sorry, I should have been clearer. My explanations weren't just aimed at your specific point, but I was taking a more general stab at the issue of forum integration. This mostly concerns any automation between site and forum.

In this specific case, this would work as long as the topic ids don't change - which a forum upgrade can't completely guarantee, either. Another issue would be the links on the home page: You might want to have the thread titles or the latest posts there -> access to forum database from the site. These are the kind of things I'm talking about.

I don't want to discourage discussion or suggestions along those lines. Quite on the contrary. You just mustn't be disappointed if not everything is implemented in the end.

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#15 Post by Eriorg » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:42 pm

Thank you, it's much clearer now!

About the links on the home page, I think just the names of the games currently played with the links to their forum threads would be enough: no need to have the thread titles or the latest posts, which would indeed not be worth the trouble.

But the fact that we can't completely guarantee that topic IDs won't change is definitely a problem, I admit...

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