Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

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Sudders
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Re: Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

#31 Post by Sudders » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:10 pm

You are absolutely right Strident. Not all competition games are tat. I just happen to have been exposed to quite few, which has coloured my viewpoint.

So! It looks, sadly, like stemming the flow is not possible.

In that case, what can we do to shield the newcomers/adventure buffs from "24th of 35 in the SpeedIF competition in Barnsley"?

Is it possible to filter the random game selection?

Alastair
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Re: Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

#32 Post by Alastair » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:26 pm

Sudders wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:10 pm
Is it possible to filter the random game selection?
I'll let those with the technical knowledge answer your question, but is this the nub of your objection to adding Speed-IF titles - that the random game selection brings to your attention games that may pique your interest, but as more Speed-IF titles are added to the site the random game selection becomes increasingly less useful to you?

Sudders
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Re: Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

#33 Post by Sudders » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:20 am

I have an objection with whole idea of flooding the database with pointless (to most) space fillers. The easy argument against this is that there is already tat in there (MIA, unreleased games, games that are just rubbish!) but that is the legacy we have and even some of them have historical interest.

However, that is my personal stance and if the random game selection filtered them out I could pretend it wasn't happening.

It would also, as you state mean I am more likely to get useful game suggestions.

In addition to this it ensures new entrants, generally people like me with a nostalgic bent, would get the same great experience I had. That fished me straight in and has led to me being a significant contributor.

I'm not after a bunfight, I just want to preserve CASA as the excellent resource it is.

Strident
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Re: Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

#34 Post by Strident » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:40 am

Sudders wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:20 am
I have an objection with whole idea of flooding the database with pointless (to most) space fillers. The easy argument against this is that there is already tat in there (MIA, unreleased games, games that are just rubbish!) but that is the legacy we have and even some of them have historical interest.
I certainly wouldn't consider MIA, unreleased games and even games that are rubbish as "tat". Other people use this archive for different reasons than you do.

Sudders
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Re: Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

#35 Post by Sudders » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:00 am

Nor do I Strident, I find them useful/interesting, I am stating that as the easy argument against.

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Re: Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

#36 Post by Gunness » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:28 pm

A lot of ground to cover here, and I haven't had the time to reply until now.
Mr Creosote wrote:After all, all those speed IF games were entered by someone. You can choose which death to die here.
We all have a limited amount of spare time to spend, and I'm truly grateful for each and every minute people decide to spend on adding information to CASA (or to do work on its backend!). I try my best to let them know that. Let there to be any doubt about that. I still can and should have an opinion about what is submitted. CASA has carved out a tiny niche for itself, which is classic 8-bit games. That does not mean that we shouldn't include other types of games - indeed we do, and I'm happy about that - but it does mean that I'm extra careful to cater for fans of that genre. Because often they can't find the material they find here anywhere else.
Mr Creosote wrote:Final side note: what bugs me so much about how this thread went is that it mashes everything and their dog together...
That's what threads sometimes do. Given the paucity of debate in here in general, I think it would be a really lousy idea for me to insist that the various topics were neatly split up. I'm far more interested in hearing what's on people's minds. But that did necessitate (or hopefully at least excuse) an insanely long reply from me. If anyone fell asleep along the way, I can't blame them :)
Mr Creosote wrote:Nevertheless, I find the call to exclude or segregate quite naive, considering how many other games are in the database which probably also didn't take longer to write than three hours, but the author just didn't tell anyone about it. And then, it is suddenly about any game ever entered into any competition? ... Saying "I'm not interested in these games" is fair enough. Regardless of the reason. Putting their worth to exist, to be played into question, I find offensive. That's not just "an opinion" anymore. Ever heard of "live and let live"?
I can only speak for myself, but I have no qualms whatsoever about letting these games live or letting people play them. Go ahead, by all means. But in a reality where our resources are limited I do reserve the right to have an opinion on where people should place their efforts. Naive? Probably. I just don't see a clear way out. You keep pointing out all the decisions that I shouldn't make - but it would be more helpful to me to hear about the ones that I should.
Sudders wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:10 pm
You are absolutely right Strident. Not all competition games are tat. I just happen to have been exposed to quite few, which has coloured my viewpoint.

So! It looks, sadly, like stemming the flow is not possible... Is it possible to filter the random game selection?
If you have only been exposed to quite few, I'm not really sure where all the animosity stems from :) Maybe try some more? Like others have written (including myself at some point), whether a game has been in a competition or not may not be the best criterion to judge inclusion or not from. Which is why I want to lay our rules out in a soft fashion. I don't want to place an general ban on competition games - a lot of them are excellent - but I do want people out there to use their best judgment. If they do have the choice between adding a one-room, one-joke game which is already covered by IFDb, or a forgotten TRS-80 title which nobody has heard of, well, I'd strongly suggest spending their time on the latter.

As for the random game: I mentioned it as a point of concern for those who disliked Speed-IF. It might be possible to create a general filtering option, though it's outside the scope of what can be done right now (there are lots of things on my wanted list). But I just see the random game as a nice item to liven up the front page a bit. I've never seen it as a deal breaker for whether people want to use CASA or not.

And just to put in a little perspective (which we've talked about in private) - right now, we have 281 games tagged as Speed IF in the database. There are nearly 1,200 games in German and Spanish, which will be equally useless to all of our English-only speaking users. The random game is just the icing, not the cake. I think it's a nice feature, but even without the games you dislike, there's a large chance of getting something you're not interested in.
I'm more concerned with the usefulness of the genre system in general.

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Alex
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Re: Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

#37 Post by Alex » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:43 pm

Yes, siree, I couldn't agree more. I even agree with your last remark about languages although I do play adventures in Dutch, English, Spanish, German, French and if I'm really up to it sometimes some more exotic languages. Although I do think a game which I can't play because I don't grasp the language is different having it in the database then a one room game, hoax etc which aren't really meant to be played by others and are for a lot of people not even interesting who do grasp the language. Of course not all competitions games are like that, but the ones that are do only fill up the database in my humble opinion. That's why I agree with Jacob that people should use their best judgment when adding a game to the database. It's a pity, I think, that nowadays it seems people are more worried about finding a game which hasn't been added to the database yet in stead of trying to solve one of the games without a solution. There are plenty of those and what is more fun then trying to solve some of those together.

Sudders
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Re: Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

#38 Post by Sudders » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:53 pm

I also agree.
I am intrigued by the foreign languages games, some of them look pretty, but I will never be able to play them. I respect those that do though.
I think Alex has put it most succinctly, quality over quantity.
For me it is all about adding synopses, reviews, maps and when I have time a solution or two.
Just need to find more time.....

Sudders
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Re: Competition Entries etc. (split from "Genre Suggestions")

#39 Post by Sudders » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:54 pm

Ahhh, and Jacob, as a fine English gentleman "Quite a few" means LOADS to me!

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